[Debbie]

#26721

I have cervical and lumbar spinal stenosis (L4-5) as well as DDD in my neck and lumbar spine, with bone spurs on every vertebrae in my neck and facet joint disease in my lumbar. That is the basic overall summary. I have seen two Neurosurgeons and both have said surgery is not an option because there is too much arthritis and the surgery would put too much pressure on the vertebrae above and below and start a domino effect with another surgery then another. I am also not a candidate for disc replacement surgery in my neck because there are three bulging discs and I was told the limit was two.

PT did nothing for me and most of the time I left there in more pain than when I got there. Injections have been recommended and I read your article about injections and I am concerned with the injections of steroids causing inflammation in my joints.

The last Neurosurgeon said no Chiropractic, No Dry Needling, and basically Aquatic Therapy every day for the rest of my life.

Recently, I noticed when I am laying on my back and I lift my hips, I can literally feel my spine moving like a snake and making this clunking popping sound. I have no idea what that is. I can move just a small amount and only one vertebrae moves. I can move higher and many move. It’s not painful but just weird.
______________
Here is the info from my lumbar MRI:
Multilevel degenerative disc disease and degenerative facet change greatest at the L4-5 level where there is moderate spinal canal stenosis and disc material contacting the bilateral L5 nerve roots within the lateral recesses.

L2-3 Disc is within normal limits. There is no spinal canal stenosis or neural foraminal narrowing. Mild degenerative facet changes are noted bilaterally.
L3-4 Disc is within normal limits. There are mild degenerative facet changes bilaterally. There is no spinal canal stenosis or neural foraminal narrowing.
L4-5 There is a mild circumferential disc buldge with a superimposed broad based central disc protrusion. This combines with mild degenerative facet change to cause moderate spinal canal stenosis. There is mild bilateral neural foraminal narrowing. There is disc material contacting the bilateral L5 nerve roots within the lateral recesses.
L5-S1 There is mild diffuse posterior disc buldge asymmetric to the right. There is no significant canal stenosis. There is no neural foraminal narrowing. The disc buldge contacts the right S1 never root within the lateral recesses.

_________________
Here is the MRI information on my cervical spine:

Cervical Spine MRI
Impression:
1. Degenerative changes in the lower cervical spine with mild canal narrowing at C4-C5, C5-C6 and C6-C7. Canal narrowing at C4-C5 and C5-C6 is slightly asymmetric to the left with slight leftward cord effacement but no cord signal abnormality.
2. Moderate foraminal narrowing at C6-C7, slightly asymmetric to the right. Mild-to-moderate foraminal narrowing is present at C5-C6 and there is mild left foraminal narrowing at C4-C5.
There is straightening of the normal cervical lordosis.
C2-C3 No canal or foraminal stenosis.
C3-C4 No canal or foraminal stenosis.
C4-C5: There is mild disc osteophyte formation, slightly asymmetric to the left. There is mild central canal narrowing with slight leftward cord effacement. No cord signal abnormality. There is mild left foraminal narrowing.
C5-C6: Disc buldge with disc osteophyte formation, slightly asymmetric to the left. There is mild canal narrowing with slight leftward cord effacement. No cord signal abnormality. There is mild-to-moderate bilateral foraminal narrowing.
C6-C7: Disc osteophyte formation is asymmetric to the right. There is mild central canal narrowing without definite cord effacement. There is moderate foraminal narrowing, slightly asymmetric to the right.
C7-T1: No canal or foraminal stenosis.
____________

I’d like to know your thoughts on their advice and/or any options that I have not considered and you may recommend.

Thank you in advance. I love your website and have shared it with many people.

[Donald Corenman, MD, DC]

#26723

First, you must specifically discern your symptoms. See the section https://neckandback.com/conditions/how-to-describe-your-history-and-symptoms-of-lower-back-and-leg-pain/ to understand how to describe symptoms from your lower back.

Dr. Corenman

PLEASE REMEMBER, THIS FORUM IS MEANT TO PROVIDE GENERAL INFORMATION ON SPINE ANATOMY, CONDITIONS AND TREATMENTS. TO GET AN ACCURATE DIAGNOSIS, YOU MUST VISIT A QUALIFIED PROFESSIONAL IN PERSON.
 
Donald Corenman, MD, DC is a highly-regarded spine surgeon, considered an expert in the area of neck and back pain. Trained as both a Medical Doctor and Doctor of Chiropractic, Dr. Corenman earned academic appointments as Clinical Assistant Professor and Assistant Professor of Orthopaedic Surgery at the University of Colorado Health Sciences Center, and his research on spine surgery and rehabilitation has resulted in the publication of multiple peer-reviewed articles and two books.

[Debbie]

#26858

Sorry for the delay in my response. My symptoms are as follows:

Dull to sharp neck, shoulder, upper back pain stays at a 6 but will randomly go to 8. Periodically it will raise to a 9 and leave me completely incapacitated. Left arm falls asleep 80% of the time, tingling and numbness down left arm and first three fingers. Mid back pain that only loosens when I bend completely over and hang there until finally my spine “drops” and the pain will lesson. I can turn my neck 30% on either side before I feel tightness then pain.

Lower back, the gabapentin keeps me from having the shooting nerve pain down my right leg. I can usually walk or do something for about 6 minutes before lower back pain shoots up and it’s a sharp, stabbing pain, mixed with burning. Feels totally different than neck. I must lie down or sit in a position where it will calm. I also have to take a stronger pain medicine if that doesn’t work. I am walking with a cane now to help reduce that pain.

The osteoarthritis pain stays at a 7 but is worse on stairs (knees) and sometimes when I get up, my hip will literally freeze and I can’t walk at all. I have to wait, try to move, and try to get it to work before I can walk again.

I did my lumbar MRI and had my arms above my head for 20 minutes. When it was finished, I could not move my arms – the nurse had to help me and when I moved them, it literally felt like my arms were being pulled out of their sockets. Horrendous pain.

I am also extremely concerned about feeling my spine move when I am laying down flat and I lift my hips, it’s like I can feel the entire chain of my spine (each vertebrae) moving along in the link, like click click click. I can also pause with my hips and just barely move and only one vertebrae moves. What is that please?

[Donald Corenman, MD, DC]

#26859

Regarding your cervical spine; “Dull to sharp neck, shoulder, upper back pain stays at a 6 but will randomly go to 8. Periodically it will raise to a 9 and leave me completely incapacitated”. This can generally be attributed to significant degenerative disc disease. You do have this based upon your radiological report (“Degenerative changes in the lower cervical spine”). This quotation does not tell us how severe the degenerative changes are but with the additional statement “straightening of the normal cervical lordosis”, this degeneration could be significant.

Your comment “when I am laying down flat and I lift my hips, it’s like I can feel the entire chain of my spine (each vertebrae) moving along in the link, like click click click”does fit with the presence of degenerative facet disease which generally goes hand-in-hand with degenerative disc disease.

Your complaint of “Left arm falls asleep 80% of the time, tingling and numbness down left arm and first three fingers” is an indication of radiculopathy or thoracic outlet syndrome. The radiological report “Moderate foraminal narrowing at C6-C7, slightly asymmetric to the right. Mild-to-moderate foraminal narrowing is present at C5-C6 and there is mild left foraminal narrowing at C4-C5” could implicate either the C5-C6 nerve or the C6-C7 nerve (the C4-5 level will not radiate into the hand).

Your comment; “I did my lumbar MRI and had my arms above my head for 20 minutes. When it was finished, I could not move my arms – the nurse had to help me and when I moved them, it literally felt like my arms were being pulled out of their sockets. Horrendous pain” sounds more like thoracic outlet syndrome.

See the sections;
https://neckandback.com/conditions/radiculopathy-pinched-nerve-in-neck/
https://neckandback.com/conditions/thoracic-outlet-syndrome/

Dr. Corenman

PLEASE REMEMBER, THIS FORUM IS MEANT TO PROVIDE GENERAL INFORMATION ON SPINE ANATOMY, CONDITIONS AND TREATMENTS. TO GET AN ACCURATE DIAGNOSIS, YOU MUST VISIT A QUALIFIED PROFESSIONAL IN PERSON.
 
Donald Corenman, MD, DC is a highly-regarded spine surgeon, considered an expert in the area of neck and back pain. Trained as both a Medical Doctor and Doctor of Chiropractic, Dr. Corenman earned academic appointments as Clinical Assistant Professor and Assistant Professor of Orthopaedic Surgery at the University of Colorado Health Sciences Center, and his research on spine surgery and rehabilitation has resulted in the publication of multiple peer-reviewed articles and two books.

[Debbie]

#26868

Thank you for all of this information, I am reading the links that you posted.

If it is facet degeneration and if it continues to deteriorate what is my prognosis? I was told by two Neurosurgeons that surgery was not an option for my cervical spine nor my lumbar spine. Do you agree or disagree with that?

Basically I have been told that Aquatic therapy every day for the rest of my life is my only option. I am want to do anything and everything I can to help my body but I am also terrified of doing anything that may bring more harm than good. Everyone tells me something different and it leaves me confused and uncertain.

[Donald Corenman, MD, DC]

#26870

I cannot comment on your suitability for surgery without a careful evaluation but I will tell you that different surgeons have very different indications for surgery. The old saying goes; “put 5 spine surgeons in a room and ask one question. You will get 10 different answers”.

Dr. Corenman

PLEASE REMEMBER, THIS FORUM IS MEANT TO PROVIDE GENERAL INFORMATION ON SPINE ANATOMY, CONDITIONS AND TREATMENTS. TO GET AN ACCURATE DIAGNOSIS, YOU MUST VISIT A QUALIFIED PROFESSIONAL IN PERSON.
 
Donald Corenman, MD, DC is a highly-regarded spine surgeon, considered an expert in the area of neck and back pain. Trained as both a Medical Doctor and Doctor of Chiropractic, Dr. Corenman earned academic appointments as Clinical Assistant Professor and Assistant Professor of Orthopaedic Surgery at the University of Colorado Health Sciences Center, and his research on spine surgery and rehabilitation has resulted in the publication of multiple peer-reviewed articles and two books.

[Author]

Posts