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  • Michaelrch
    Participant
    Post count: 19

    Dear Dr Corenman

    Many thanks for you quick response.
    In answer to your question about my symptoms before this last surgery, I had both leg pain, especially after standing for a while or sitting for relatively short periods, and I also had central Back pain if I did anything that required “shock absorbing” in my lower back e.g. walking downhill and a certain gym machine where you stand on elastic bands that are free to move up and down and you have to stabilise yourself on them.

    Re the herniated disc, from the consults I have had, yes the surgeon says he does not see any further herniation though it has to be said that a) any previous herniation was not much evident on previous MRIs and
    B) he did not see much of a herniation when he actually operated and opened my up.

    The reasons for believing that some of the pain I have now is Si joint pain are
    – that it gets worse after walking (not the case before this surgery)
    – I have pain on the outside of the thigh and sometimes into the hip as well as in the back of the leg,
    – I have had injections into the joint and they do work a bit, albeit nothing amazing.
    – I cannot lie on my left side at all without causing pain.
    – some of the physical movements to provoke SI joint pain are positive though not all
    – the first steroid injection I had in the joint (about 3 months ago) caused a very strong immediate reaction in the local area – actually it felt like someone had just taken a big hammer to my backside but I figured that was a reaction to the injection into a highly inflamed joint

    Reasons to believe it might not be are
    – I had an RFA and it did not fully clear up the pain in the joint
    – I have had several steroid injections and continue to get buttock and leg pain after walking too much or doing the wrong exercises

    Other symptoms right now are
    – I cannot stretch my hamstring without causing an instant and long lasting painful reaction in my S1 nerve
    – I can’t sit for more than 5-10 minutes without first getting back pain then getting long lasting leg pain afterwards
    – I can’t lie on my back without getting pain in my back (I think my L5S1 facet joint) and also almost instant tingling then pain in my buttock and leg (so I have to lie on my right side, without exception which is infuriating)

    Those last symptoms do suggest that something is pressing the nerve directly rather than the nerve pain being the result of an inflammatory problem in the SI joint. The problem with lying on my back only appeared after doing some exercises to strengthen my glutes and hip abducttors and adductors (to stabilise the SI joint) which involved a slight twisting of the hips. I put (past tense) it down to further irritation of the SI joints or facet joints but, in hindsight, I guess the sheering motion could have caused further deterioration of the disc…

    Do you have any thoughts regarding the stiffness if the rest of my lumbar spine? I have a feeling that if I don’t remedy that, anything else I try will be futile as so much load is currently being put on the bottom segment and the SI joint.

    Also, should I not be worried that if the existing stiffness and stabilisation is already causing SI joint dysfunction then actually fusing the L5S1 would not make that dysfunction even worse?

    Re your study, how did you conclude that the SI joint pain was actually caused by the lumbar spine?
    My surgeon said that a problem with the L5S1 disc could “entertain” a problem in the SI joint but I had no idea what he meant. It sounds akin to what you are suggesting.

    Thanks very much again
    Michael

    Ps I have tons of images that I could send you. I know you charge for looking at those. How could I arrange a consultation on that basis and get an idea of costs etc?

    Michaelrch
    Participant
    Post count: 19

    Dear Dr Corenman
    It has been a while so here is an update on where I am up to. Not great.
    After some discussion the surgeon concluded that the best option would be a dynamic stabilisation, and due some arthritis of the L4-L5 facet joints, he wanted to do S1-L4. So this is what we did in May 2017. After opening me up he found that the facet joints were very enlarged (although this had always been asymptomatic). At first follow up he was very pleased with the placement and fixation of all 6 screws but I was getting leg pain and pain in my lower back. This turned out to be SI joint pain and then pseudo radicular pain from the inflammation. Then I also started getting a similar problem in my left L5S1 facet joint, I have had numerous steroid injections into the SI joint, facet joint and L5 nerve which all help a bit but nothing works for more than a few days. I am mostly bed bound and on 15mg Targin, 600mg Lodine and 4.5mg Lexintanil a day. I am getting pain in my SI joint, fact joint and plenty of nerve pain in the leg after waklking, sitting etc. So all worse than before.

    After discussion with my physio, we have a theory why my recovery is so bad. He has found (and this agrees with past experience) that my whole lumbar spine is VERY VERY stiff. When I was fit and healthy, m6 wife (a yoga teacher) had commented hat when I bent forward to touch my toes, my L5S1 joint was mobile, then my lower back was straight and rigid and would only start arching above L1.
    So my physio’s theory is that because my L4-L1 is completely rigid, then my back is behaving like I am stabilised/fused from S1 up to L1, and maybe even a bit into my thoracic spine. So this is hugely overloading my SI joint and my L5S1 facet joints (due to the slightly changed geometry at that joint after the stabilisation)

    Do you agree that this “natural” stiffness in L4-L1 or even up to T11/T10 could be he reason why I have recovered so badly from the original microdiscectomy and now this stabilisation? Ie after the microdiscectomy the L5S1 was badly overloaded so no amount of physio would allow me to stabilise it with my muscles. Now that S1-L4 is stabilised, then the overloading is going into my SI joint and so that is failing now. Does that make sense? If so, what treatment is possible to relieve this chronic tightness in these other segments?
    If not, what would you suggest I should try?

    My surgeon did previously mutter that fusion might have to be the next step but it strikes me that that could only make things much worse!

    I very much look forward to hearing your advice.
    Many thanks as always
    Michael

    PS the stabilisation system I had installed is this one
    http://www.spinesave.com/system-iv/
    The screws look well placed and integrated so far. There is no sign of loosening on X-rays or CT scans. I have the most flexible rods that should allow up to 50% motion in the joint.

    Michaelrch
    Participant
    Post count: 19

    Many thanks again Dr Corenman

    Re the gel barrier, as I had the microdiscectomy 9 months ago I hope that the tear in the annulus should have scarred over now. The main aim of this next op is to clear the nerve of scar tissue and any debris that is in there but is not clear in the MRI. That said I suppose if the surgeon thinks that he needs to trim a few millimetres of the disc he might do. He does think that the problem is the combination of the fixed nerve and a very small bulge in the disc.

    Re the neurolysis, in your experience is there a significant chance that the symptoms of the scarring after this op will be worse than what I have now?

    I know it’s not a good reference source given the bias and self selecting group of people, but I have read reports on forums of people having an op to remove scar tissue and being in worse pain afterwards. I am hoping that they are not representative and that the gel or barrier can reduce these risks to an acceptable level.

    Michaelrch
    Participant
    Post count: 19
    in reply to: Scar Tissue #24493

    Hi Nick
    I have symptoms and pathology in common with what you have been describing. Mainly scar tissue at the nerve root and possible minor reherniation. I am booked in for an op to clean up the nerve and remove and stray disc tissue in a few weeks.
    As it has been a few months since your revision I wondered how you have been since your last post.
    I hope you are feeling better?
    Best regards
    Michael

    Michaelrch
    Participant
    Post count: 19

    Thanks again for your advice Dr Corenman. I will bear that in mind.

    Re the Neurolysis which I am scheduled for in April, I understand the chances of success are 50-60%. I asked my surgeon if the op could result in worse pain afterwards if the scar comes back worse. He said that it is not likely. He also intends to use Medtronic Medishield (marketed in the US as Oxiplex) and this has a good track record of reducing incindence of adhesions.

    In your experience with your patients, if the neurolysis op does not work, is there a serious chance of the symptoms being significantly worse? Also do you use gel barriers in your practice and if so, how do they work?

    Many thanks again as always
    Michael

    Michaelrch
    Participant
    Post count: 19

    Hi Dr Conernman

    Many thanks for your quick response. It was a bit of splash of cold water but that is what I am after so I can make the best choice.

    Re the surgeon, he is a professor of neurosurgery, I just found he was president of the Swiss society of Neurosurgeons a few years ago, and was recommended to me by our doctor of 12 years who has not put us wrong before, so I am not minded to question the surgeon’s technical skill in doing a tidy job. I understand your point about nerve damage, I guess there is no predicting that. The only thing I can say is that the scans do show scarring adjacent to the nerve at the foramen as well as something the surgeon still suspects is disc tissue next to the nerve, compressing it slightly.

    Re the pedicle screws, you say no to doing that without fusion. Does that mean you are not an advocate of dynamic stabilisation systems? I know the one that everyone seems to study is Dynesys. I asked the surgeon if that is the one he uses. He said no, he uses something newer – similar principles but more effective. He says to expect about 50% less motion with such a system rather than 100% less motion with fusion. He does not like fusion because of the loss of motion and the danger of cascading disease in adjacent segments. He suggests considering stabilisation to stop the slight bulging of the disc (when sitting etc) pressing into the nerve which is tethered at the foramen and can’t get out of the way, hence pain. His theory is stabilisation and support from the screws/cords stops the disc bulging, so the nerve is not under pressure, so reduced pain. Plus the stabilisation does partly stop motion, so less demand on the nerve to move around, so even if it is tethered then it is not being yanked around when the scar tissue doesn’t want to let it.

    Thanks again for you thoughts
    Best regards
    Michael

Viewing 6 posts - 1 through 6 (of 18 total)