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#32917 In reply to: after 4 level ACDF, neck pain is increasing dramatically |
The first situation I think about in this circumstance is a non-union (lack of fusion) at one or more levels. The second is adjacent segment degeneration (problems with the non-surgical levels). It is unlikely to be upper thoracic facet or disc generated pain. The first test I would consider (after flexion-extension X-rays and a thorough physical examination) should be a CT scan (1mm fine cut) to look for fusion status.
Dr. Corenman
PLEASE REMEMBER, THIS FORUM IS MEANT TO PROVIDE GENERAL INFORMATION ON SPINE ANATOMY, CONDITIONS AND TREATMENTS. TO GET AN ACCURATE DIAGNOSIS, YOU MUST VISIT A QUALIFIED PROFESSIONAL IN PERSON.
Donald Corenman, MD, DC is a highly-regarded spine surgeon, considered an expert in the area of neck and back pain. Trained as both a Medical Doctor and Doctor of Chiropractic, Dr. Corenman earned academic appointments as Clinical Assistant Professor and Assistant Professor of Orthopaedic Surgery at the University of Colorado Health Sciences Center, and his research on spine surgery and rehabilitation has resulted in the publication of multiple peer-reviewed articles and two books.#32915 In reply to: L5 nerve root recovery |Dr. Corenman,
what is the recovery methodology for afferent neurons in cases of axonal death and some myelin damage distal to place of injury? i.e how CAN they recover from such long distance with relatively short time?
I did not questioned it right.
I meant how can I feel some improvement with only 6 months gone by?
Is there a “critical mass” of connected neurons from which the nerve becomes “non-irritable”?By asking about CAN & Methodolgy I meant about a gradual improvement as opposed to connected/not conneted (on/off) situation I understood from your articles.
Improvement that is some shrinkage in the numb area and less irritation (it takes more time to provoke it).I’ve read a bit and found out that the 1 mm/day or 1 inch/month is a thumb rule first detailed in “Rate of regeneration of peripheral nerves in man” HJ Seddon et al. J Physiol. 1943. (p191-215)” In “Nerve Regeneration: Tissue Engineering Strategies (2006)” Recknor JB and Mallapragada SK cited that “Human axon growth rates can reach 2 mm/day in small nerves and 5 mm/day in large nerves.” So I guess there are several factors involved here and the axon growth rate is not a constant number.
From your clinical experience what is more accurate in lumbar radiculopathy cases ?(nerve root->sciatic nerve->terminal branches)Two more questions in your permission:
1) Can the wallerian degeneration process have already started in the distal segment several days/weeks after the LDH together with the denevration process from the proximal segment?
2) Can TENS treatments promote PN regeneration or mitigate “nerve irritability” symptoms? modernneuropathy.com/5-best-e-stimulation-devices-for-nerve-regeneration/The buttom line is that it’s more harder for mentally then physically those irritations & limitations increase my level of anxiety and depression and can cause me panic attacks.
I could’ve handle the burning, numbess & pain much better if I only knew that this is a residual phase for a relative short time frame (upto a year or so post-op) after which the nerve will become “stable” or asymptomatic without allodynia pathological lines.
I can live with numb patches and/or some loss of sensation thresholds.Thank you very much Dr. Corenman
#32898 In reply to: L5 nerve root recovery |Dr. Corenman,
I miss calculated the post-op time. on 25th it will be 6 months.
I’ve written about my numb skin just to describe to anyone who doesn’t have numbness how it feels like but I guess it wasn’t good analogy.
I think the best way I can describe it is walking on a blister or on a bubble it feels like dead skin.
When walking outside this “bubble” spreads along the the whole sole and to recover from the soreness it produces almost instantly you to need to rest preferably with your leg up.
I think I’m making mistake comparing my right foot to the healthy left one but on the other hand I cannot tell what is a “normal” foot feels like.Hypersensitivity of the skin (hyperalgesia or allodynia) can occur. A simple brushing of bed sheets on exposed skin can cause intense pain.
No I don’t think I qualify for allodynia, thermal or mechanical. When I said alternates I meant “when it’s painful the pain feeling alternates”…it’s not always painful.
In saying numb/numbness I mean loss of sensation not lack of sensation. The threshold for hot/cold sensation is 70-80% of the other foot that’s fair I can live with that.Putting all my body weight on my foot balls (standing on my toes in point position) for a period of time will aggravate the nerve there is no such problem in the other foot. It also applies for prolonged sitting leg-over-leg (only for right over left) and for walking distances. The accumulated pressure on the balls of the foot or on their nerve path is currently limited and symptomatic (causes soreness and some burning sensation along the whole sole)
I think I’m doing a little bit better on Idle state the numbness/bubble has shrunk to the area beneath my big toe ball. There are less flairups (i.e feeling of burning feet) after prolonged sitting or walking, but still it’s not asymptomatic (I’ve heard many peopole with lower somatosensoric nerve issues that their sole is just numb, they don’t feel anything) and draws my mind’s attention regularly. also sometimes I feel a little bit of tingling on the dorsum of the foot though it still feels numb the sensations hot/cold/touch feels normal.
I’ve been put on pregabalin (started 75mgx2 /day then after a week 150×2 /day) I really hope it’s temporary and not the real cause of my improvement so I won’t use this medication on a regular basis for the long run.
I’ve measured the distance from the L5 exit (I have a scar there) through the thigh⋚ till the end of the foot it’s roughly 4’1 (I’m 6’1) so if the nerve recovers at 1mm per day it will take it almost 3.5 years to get there seems highly unlikeabke. Like you’ve written and said those wallerian degeneration are generally preserved (may I add exclusively?) for effernt neurons recovery.
If so then what is the recovery methodology for afferent neurons in cases of axonal death and some myelin damage distal to place of injury? i.e how CAN they recover from such long distance with relatively short time ?
Thank you Dr. Corenman
#32847Topic: L5-S1 discectomy 7 weeks post op in forum BACK PAIN |Good evening Dr. Corenman! I went approximately 4 months with a broad based central herniation at L5-S1. I tried all conservative measures until I couldn’t tolerate the symptoms anymore. Prior to surgery I had extreme debilitating sciatic pain on the right side with weakness in my calf and foot. I was unable to do more than 2 heel raises. I had pain with any position that nothing relieved I opted to proceed with open discectomy. After surgery I did not feel the intense pain down my leg. Just mainly the surgical site pain. I was on Gabapentin 300 mg twice a day for two weeks and tapered off. About week 2-3 I noticed slight sciatic pain in glute and upper hamstring if my posture is not proper. I’m unsure if I just didn’t notice this right after surgery because I didn’t have full ROM yet and/or the Gabapentin was masking the symptoms. For instance if I slouch any little bit or sometimes look up at the sky etc I can feel a twinge. Its not getting worse but not getting better. I am now 7 weeks post op and two days ago started having tingling sensations down my entire right leg, thigh, calf and foot. I called my surgeon and have a follow up next week but I am certainly concerned about reherniation as NSAIDS and medrol dose pack do not seem to be alleviating the symptoms. Is this just a normal process of nerve healing?
#32841Topic: 6 weeks post L4/L5 Microdiscectomy pain in forum BACK PAIN |Hi Dr Corenmen, I have been reading the forum on this website for some time now and mustered up the courage to ask for some insight out of desperation.
My current situation is as follows; I am a 31 year old male. I was in pain for 8 months prior to my L4/L5 Microdiscectomy. I was told I had a herniation that was compressing my sciatic nerve which caused me pain down my left buttock, hip and calf.
I had my Microdiscectomy 6 weeks ago and felt great after my opp. Around the 4 week mark I started experiencing similar pains I had prior to the procedure. This gradually got worse and I now find myself in a position where I’m questioning whether the operation was a success?
There are differences to the pain I was experiencing prior to the operation. When I do the “straight leg test” I don’t get pain. However in the mornings soon after I wake up the pain is bad and tails off after a couple of hours. In the evenings I feel it coming on again but it’s not as intense as it was prior to the procedure. I do notice when I cough or sneeze I get a shooting pain but again, it’s not as intense as it used to be. If I stand or walk for longer than 15 minutes and then sit down I can feel pain in the hip and buttock. I feel walking aggravates it. (To clarify, this is the sciatic type of pain that radiates down my hip)
I didn’t feel any sudden pain that would suggest it had reherniated, it just got worse as the days went by?
My question is could this be nerve inflammation? If so, based on your experience, how long does it take for this to settle? My surgeon has suggested i take anti inflammatory drugs but they don’t seem to help much.
Some side notes, I have no problems raising my legs or don’t feel any weakness in my legs. I don’t have trouble sleeping but get stiffness in the back at night (which I’m sure most people get)
Really appreciate your time. Kind regards
#32805 In reply to: A Cervical Spine question! |Your question is very non-specific. What ligaments are torn? You have a list of ligaments such as ALL, PLL, annulus, capsule, interspinous, supraspinous and ligamentum flavum. Compression fractures depend upon how compressed they are, malalignment (kyphosis), splits (sagittal and coronal) and lysthesis (slips). Is there any neurological injury or just local pain? Is there narrowing in the central canal or foramen or even vertebral artery foramen? What do the flexion/extension X-rays demonstrate?
Dr. Corenman
PLEASE REMEMBER, THIS FORUM IS MEANT TO PROVIDE GENERAL INFORMATION ON SPINE ANATOMY, CONDITIONS AND TREATMENTS. TO GET AN ACCURATE DIAGNOSIS, YOU MUST VISIT A QUALIFIED PROFESSIONAL IN PERSON.
Donald Corenman, MD, DC is a highly-regarded spine surgeon, considered an expert in the area of neck and back pain. Trained as both a Medical Doctor and Doctor of Chiropractic, Dr. Corenman earned academic appointments as Clinical Assistant Professor and Assistant Professor of Orthopaedic Surgery at the University of Colorado Health Sciences Center, and his research on spine surgery and rehabilitation has resulted in the publication of multiple peer-reviewed articles and two books. -
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