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  • elesh
    Participant
    Post count: 13

    I have been suffering from neck pain for 2 years or more now. I had an MRI and Dr suggested I need surgery. I would like some advice and help if surgery is only option or i can have any other treatment. I am very scared of the surgery please help to clarify this result as it seems too complicated for me. Many thanks

    MRI CERVICAL SPINE

    TECHNIQUE
    Multi-planar,multi-sequence MRI of cervical spine was performed on 1.5 tesla phillips acheva scanner using 8 cahnnel nv coil

    OBSERVATION

    Curvature and Alignment
    Straightening and reversal of the normal cervical lordosis.
    Vertebral Bodies

    With anterior and posterior osteophytic formations especially at c5/6. Focal fatty deposits/hemangioma within the c5 vertebral body.

    Posterior elements

    Facetal arthropathy especially at c7/01 on theleft

    Discs

    Small right foraminal disc herniation at C3/4 right paramedian and foraminal disc herniation at c5/6 identing the discs and impinging upon the nerve roots at the recess and neuroforament left paramedian disc. Osteophyte complex at c6/7 also obliterating the theca and imping upon the nerve roots at recess and neuroforamen.

    Canal and Foramins
    Canal stenosis of about 8mm at c5/6, c6/7

    Paravertebral sof tissues normal.

    Spinal cord

    Slight cord impingement by the posterior disc osteophytic complexes at c5/6, c6/7. No obvious cord signal changes seen.

    Left paramedian disc osteophyte disc osteophyte complex at C6, the nerve roots at the recess and neurofaramen canal stenosis of about 8mm and slight cord impingement without myelopathy at c5/6, c6/7

    Thanks please advice if any further test can be done before I can decide if surgery is necessary and if surgery is only option in my case. Thanks

    rv80
    Member
    Post count: 1

    Hi,

    I’m a 32 year old man and in August 2011 I had a laminectomy surgery of C5 and C6 because of severe spinal cord compression because of congenital spinal stenosis. This left me with a huge myelopathy lesion on the spinal cord at those levels.

    After surgery my walking gait improved and most sensation has returned in my fingertips. But when laying in bed my left arm keeps on tingling a lot. On some moments my walking gait is more worse than others as well. And some numbness occurs when it’s really cold outside.

    My concern lies in the following:

    The other levels of my neck are still really narrow because of the congenital narrow spinal canal. C4 is around 8mm and so is C7. However on the MRI when I’m laying horizontal there is spinal fluid to be seen all around the cord. It’s almost nothing, but it is present. When bending the neck a bit backwards (not flexion, but a bit) the spinal cord becomes compressed on those levels with almost no spinal fluid left visible around the cord.

    I’ve had two neurosurgeons look at this and both of them don’t seem concerned with my spinal cord being visibly compressed when my neck is a bit backwards. They say that because there is spinal fluid visible around the cord in the normal / laying position MRI I’m fine for lots of years to come. But I am concerned about it including the only 8mm of canal space on those levels. I’m really young and don’t want to lose more function and would rather have those two levels fixed before developing serious problems.

    I kind of have no idea what to do in this situation.

    Thanks for your time!

    Donald Corenman, MD, DC
    Moderator
    Post count: 8660

    Cervical stenosis (narrowing of the central canal which compresses the spinal cord) causes a condition called myelopathy. Myelopathy does not include neck pain as a symptom by itself as the spinal cord does not have any pain nerve ending in its substance.

    Neck pain is normally generated by the discs, facets and nerves but not by compression of the cord. You report “head pain” which I think you mean back of the skull headaches. If that is the case, this type of pain is typically generated by the facets at C2-3 and C3-4 (rarely by the C1-2 facets). If you have had a fusion of the C3-4 level and it is solid (lack of fusion can also cause these symptoms), then the base of skull pain could be from C2-3. Facet blocks (see website) can help to diagnose this condition.

    Shoulder pain radiating into the left arm sound to be a radiculopathy (see website- compression of a nerve root). If the pain radiates down below your elbow, that could originate from the C6 or C7 nerves. If the pain does not radiate below the elbow, then the C5 nerve could be involved as well as C6 or C7.

    Torticollis, I assume you to mean that you have neck pain that stiffens your neck. If this is the case, this neck pain can originate from degenerative disc disease or facet disease in the lower portion of your neck (assuming that your fusion of C3-5 is solid). A new MRI and physical examination can go a long way to help sort out your disorder.

    Dr. Corenman

    PLEASE REMEMBER, THIS FORUM IS MEANT TO PROVIDE GENERAL INFORMATION ON SPINE ANATOMY, CONDITIONS AND TREATMENTS. TO GET AN ACCURATE DIAGNOSIS, YOU MUST VISIT A QUALIFIED PROFESSIONAL IN PERSON.
     
    Donald Corenman, MD, DC is a highly-regarded spine surgeon, considered an expert in the area of neck and back pain. Trained as both a Medical Doctor and Doctor of Chiropractic, Dr. Corenman earned academic appointments as Clinical Assistant Professor and Assistant Professor of Orthopaedic Surgery at the University of Colorado Health Sciences Center, and his research on spine surgery and rehabilitation has resulted in the publication of multiple peer-reviewed articles and two books.
    mvenkata
    Member
    Post count: 3

    Hi Doc,
    Thank you for taking your time reading through this. I am 36 yrs. old and in Dec 2010, I had two surgeries within 2 days to alleviate severe cervical stenosis. ACDF 2 levels from C3-C5 and PCDF from C3-C5.
    I had a severe radiating pain running through my shoulder to my left arm with severe head pain before my surgery which had lead me to the doctor’s office visit.
    There have been many ups and downs since then and now almost 21 months from my surgeries, I am often experiencing these symptoms which I had also discussed (MRIs and x-rays) with my doctor three times and I was told that the surgery has alleviated the pressure from the nerves and these symptoms might be related to something else. I can also see that the severe myelopathy (stenosis) is taken care off and the nerve shoots have good room to branch. I also tried physical therapy and it made my pain worse and caused more knots on my neck muscles.

    My Symptoms: Numbness in my right hand from time to time in the ulnar area. Stiffness/Neck pain and upper back pain on my right shoulder and Torticollis on the right side of the body.

    I have also noticed that this happens if I stressed myself a little more the previous day. Also whenever I experience these symptoms, the torticollis seems much more prominent which also leads me to think that my sleeping position or the torticollis is pinching some nerve and causing the pain.
    I did have one shoulder above the other since I remember, but my neck was always straight. Now after the surgery, it looks tilted and only if I keep my shoulder straight then the neck aligns straight.
    I want to get my life back and start exercising but given this above symptoms, I feel that I will cause more damage without knowing the reason for the stress and fixing the same in the first place.

    drdave35
    Member
    Post count: 5

    Dear Dr. Corenman,

    Thank you very much for your kind and wise advice regarding my previous surgeon having discharged me from care at 8 weeks post C5-6, C6-7 ACDF with allograft and plating.

    It is worthwhile to note that I have been previously diagnosed with a chronic B-12 deficiency (treated with cyanocobalamin injections every month) and a vitamin D insufficiency (D level of “14” on pre-op lab results, for which I now take 5000 I.U. of D-3 daily). This is apparently due to an absorption problem caused by years of using proton pump inhibitors for sever GERD. Could be a factor in some of the neurological symptoms…I have a first neurology appointment coming-up in a few weeks, along with EMG/NCV’s scheduled for both upper and lower extremities.

    I was lucky enough to have been accepted for care by another orthopedic spine surgeon last week.

    He reviewed all of my findings, took plain x-rays, and my post-op diagnosis remains as Cervical foraminal stenosis, cervical myelopathy (based on clinical examination, etc.)

    The physician recommended an immediate CT/Myelogram, and stated there was posterior lipping and possible spondylolisthesis of C6-7. He could not tell from the plain films if fusion had begun (11 weeks post-op).

    When I mentioned the myelogram order to my internist, he told me that he thinks it is contra-indicated in my case, due to having had two previous lumbar surgeries (he felt the lumbar puncture would not seal, due to scarring of the dura), and that since I already have a diagnosis of myelopathy and multiple nerve root compression (symptoms have not resolved at all post-ACDF), that the myelogram dye may well leave me much worse-off than I am at present.

    Aside from deep “bone-pain” type headaches every day which seem to be associated with neck position (replicable by tilting my head left or right, or turning my head to the right), I persist with: bilateral arm pain, bilateral arm numbness, rather severe muscle spasms in neck, shoulders, mid-back between shoulder blades, along with leg and arm spasticities (spontaneous painful contractures of toes, feet, fingers, and wrists which are intermittent, but which do release with manual re-positioning back to a neutral position), neck pain, radiating scalp and facial pain.

    That said, I am SCARED TO DEATH of undergoing a myelogram.

    Between the lumbar puncture, the potential (probable) spinal headaches, blood patches, CSF leaks, being bedridden, possible inflammatory nerve response, etc…I am highly unlikely to undergo the requested procedure…I am barely hanging-on here pain-wise, and I just can’t risk being in more pain or being any more disabled than I currently am.

    So, I asked my new orthopedic spine surgeon for an alternative diagnostic (such as MRI). He had his P.A. call me and tell me there is no alternative to the myelogram “because you have had a cervical fusion”.

    I understand that the titanium plate can cause artifact on MRI, but isn’t there something else he can order to obtain relatively clear visualization of the bone growth and/or nerve root and spinal cord compression without putting me through a myelogram?

    I feel I am one again “stuck” in my treatment, as the doctor will not order a bone growth stimulator, P/T, or any other treatment until I undergo the myelogram, and only the myelogram.

    Once again, I am not trying to be a “difficult” patient, but I honestly am not willing to put myself in a position to become (potentially) sick and further disabled from the myelogram.

    Your valuable insight would be greatly appreciated, as to any alternative diagnostics you would recommend in this situation.

    Thank You,

    D.S.

    Queen V
    Member
    Post count: 4

    Dear Dr. Corenman,

    Thank you for the lifeline you’ve thrown to so many of us. You are a rare and generous man.

    Let me start by stating that I am unbelievably stoic. I have osteoarthritis and DDD in my cervical and lumbar spine. The OA and DDD go back at least three generations. Thoracic spine has not been studied but I do have symptoms in that area. I started having central neck pain with radiating pain down my shoulder and right arm when I was 23 years old (I believe it began even earlier than that). A neurologist ordered an x-ray and told me I had a narrowed disc space and he could feel the spasms in my neck — he prescribed traction/heat at home. I am now 55 years old and things have progressed to the point that I am quite disabled and I must govern every single move I make. I’m cautious about both head and lower back movements. I spend most days in a recliner because any type of movement — standing, using my arms or walking causes so much pain that I sometimes feel I’d rather die than feel that level of pain. No, I am not suicidal. I sleep in a recliner because both sides of my upper/outer thighs are exquisitely painful to lie on. I’m unable to lie on either side and my internist believes I may have bursitis on both sides.

    I’ve had x-rays and MRIs a several times along the way, but I was never referred to a neurosurgeon. It’s a very long story, but I keep falling through every crack there is. I’ve tried everything: epidural steroid injections, chiropractics, traction, PT, TENS unit, exercise, yoga (impossible) etc. You name it, I’ve tried it. I am currently taking Hydrocodone, Baclofen, Cymbalta, Neurontin and Amitriptyline; but they do little for the pain. I am unable to take oral non-narcotic anti-inflammatory meds because I have Barrett’s Esophagus.

    I can walk for a little bit, but have to rest because my legs feel very heavy or weighted down. My fine motor skills are very poor and my arms/hands and fingers feel weak. I used to type 135 WPM, but now I can’t do more than a few minutes on the computer because my hands/fingers don’t cooperate with me and it causes severe pain in my neck/shoulder/arm. My movements are very uncoordinated and clumsy. I’m unable to hold a book to read or hold my cell phone to my ear for very long due to weakness in my right arm. Writing can be very difficult and my handwriting changes appearance depending on the level of weakness I’m experiencing; putting on jewelry and buttoning clothing are all quite difficult if not impossible. I used to make jewelry but had to give it up due to poor motor skills and weakness. I have shooting nerve pains that go down my right shoulder area and arm — it feels like lightning and my arms feel heavy and awkward. Sometimes I wake up at night and both arms and hands are numb and dead. I walk like I’m drunk and list to the right. I cannot stand in place with my eyes closed without falling over. Getting up at night is awful as I walk into doors, fall down etc. in low light or darkness. I’m unable to tell where I am in time/space. I can’t climb stairs very well. I sometimes must push off of the insides of my feet in wobbly fashion to get up steps. I’ve tried riding on the back of my husband’s motorcycle a couple of times and when I get off the bike I’m unable to lift my legs to step up on a curb or steps. Given enough time I’ll come out of it.

    My neck is exquisitely painful. Leaning over to try and weed my flower bed for 5 minutes and I’m immobilized from the neck, arm and back pain. It almost feels like a water balloon is expanding from my neck up into my head. I wish I understood why leaning over that way is the worst precipitating event. But sneezing, coughing or turning my head; also leaning over to rinse my mouth after brushing my teeth can cause shooting pains in my neck and down my arm. When that happens I’m unable to turn my head at all. I have had episodes when I’m unable to hold my own head up and must rely on a cervical collar. The symptoms can last days to months and they are very long “attacks.” One day I turned my head too quickly in the shower and instantly felt very weak all over. I knew I was in big trouble so I left the shower running, got down on the floor onto my back and just laid there as I felt paralysis wash over me. I couldn’t move my head or my arms for about a half hour. I was terrified, but little by little enough strength came back for me to get myself to bed.

    My lower back hurts all of the time. It worsens when I stand too long or lean over for a few seconds. Shopping is out of the question unless I’m leaning on a shopping cart. Still, even that is very limited and I know I have a short amount of time to get what I need and get out. I get back relief by leaning over as far as I can while sitting. I get neck relief by letting my head dangle over between my legs, or by having my husband pull on my head gently while I lie on my back on the floor. Family/friends comment about my frequent position changes. I have so much lower back/upper-outer thigh pain that I must change positions very frequently.

    Whatever the problem is, it seems episodic? even though I am in almost constant pain. The physicians I’ve seen (GPs and internists) don’t always elicit the weakness and deficits I describe. They do note that I don’t have reflexes in my knees and ankles, but once in a while reflexes are very brisk. They have noted slight weakness in my arms and hands a few times, but seem to feel this is insignificant. The degree of weakness varies in response to whatever physical activities I’ve done in a day, however meager. I have an orthopedic appointment at the end of September but that seems so far away.

    Most recently I’m having involuntary muscle jerks and fasciculations (seen, felt and documented in the ER). I do not have ALS — the muscle jerks and fasciculations are clearly my body’s response to being on my feet and/or using my arms. I also have tremors and shakiness after using limbs. My rear end is numb and I have experienced urinary and fecal incontinence. I have pain down the backs on my thighs. I also get pain on the side of my calf that radiates around slightly and down the front. I get painful muscle cramps? in my ribcage and through my back, always at the same level. I also get frequent and very painful muscle cramps and contortionist-like positions in the last three toes on my left foot. My back feels best if I lean over and rest while doing dishes, if I’m on my feet and conversing with someone I lean over on a counter or ask if we can go sit down. On the rare occasions that I feel well enough to go shopping I feel best leaning over a shopping cart. On one occasion I turned my head quickly and had to lie down very quickly because severe weakness set in. Once I was on my back I couldn’t move my head or arms. I’ve had long-term changes in sensation with numbness and tingling in hands and feet. Again, I am extremely stoic and I think maybe that affects the doctors’ perception of the amount of pain I am in.

    I really did slip through the cracks or several docs dropped the ball because I’ve had three MRIs but have not been referred to neurology.

    ______
    Here is my 2003 MRI:
    An MRI/MRA of the neck revealed degenerative disc disease with spuring at C2-3, C3-4, and C5-6 with narrowing of the cervical spine canal. The spinal canal is effaced, but the cord itself is intact with no T2 signal abnormalities. There is minimal narrowing of the cervical foramen at several levels, but nothing that appears to efface transversing cervical roots.

    EMG
    A few scattered motor unit potential changes in C7 innervated muscles on the left, sugestive of an old radiculopathy.

    Peroneal nerve motor responses were low and conduction slightly low. The changes are suggestive of a peripheral neuropathy.

    Median sensory conduction velocity was slightly slowed. The needle examination abnormalities were slightly large motor units in the left triceps and low cervical paraspinal muscles.

    Evidence of distal postganglionic sudomotor and minimal cardiovagal/cardiovascular adrenergic impairment.

    QSART responses were reduced at the foot site (-99) and normal for other sites.

    ______
    2004 MRI
    The C3-4 level demonstrates uncovertebral spurring on the left with assymetric narrowing of the left C3-4 neural foramen. No cord impingement at this level. The C4-5 level demonstrates spondylosis with osteophyte disc complex eccentric extending to the left which does closely approximate the cervical cord without cord impingement. The C5-6 level does demonstrate spondylosis with osteophyte disc complex which does closely approximate the cervical cord at this level with minimal cord deformity. The C6-7 level demonstrates osteophyte disc complex which does extend to the proximal left C6-7 neural foramen.

    IMPRESSION: Multilevel cervical spondylosis.

    2) Osteophyte disc complex does closely approximate the cervical cord at the C5-6 level with minimal spinal cord deformity.
    3) Osteophyte disc complex is also noted at th C6-7 level extending to the left and the C4-5 level extending to the left.

    It looks like the cervical spine is visualized and there is contrast for an arterial study. In looking at the study, I think there is cervical cord impingement with the right signal in the cord itself suggestive of myelopathy from cord impingement.

    I also had Tech-99m scan or nuclear bone study? There was a focus of mildly increased activity in the left side of the L4 vertebral body. Also linear increased uptake in the right anterior iliac crest area. There is asymmetry between the right and left side. There is a question of osteopenia. Hip joints show early degenerative changes with acetabular sclerosis. There are some benign-appearing calcifications within the pelvis. Slight irregularity to the pubic symphysis consistent with chronic osteitis pubis. I have a stress fracture in the L4 vertebral body and a herniated disc at that level. It was initially thought to be metastasis from my breast cancer, but that was eventually ruled out.

    The neurologist lost the MRI, bone scan and radiology reports so there was no follow-up again. I do have a history of high parathyroid hormone but no parathyroid disease. Secondary hyperparathyroidism? Sorry, I can’t remember. I did copy some of my medical records to my computer before they disappeared.
    ______
    2012 MRI

    Notes Recorded by Christopher, MD on 6/14/2012 at 7:35 AM
    You do have some impingement especially in your cervical spine. I’ll await the opinion of neurology on whether or not this could be causing your symptoms.

    Result Narrative

    Indication: Upper and lower reticular and spastic symptoms

    Exam: Cervical and upper thoracic spine MRI without IV contrast. This
    study extends from the clivus to the T4 vertebral body. The study
    includes sagittal T1, STIR, T2 RESTORE and T2 3D SPACE volumetric
    images; axial T2 and MPR images; coronal MPR and bilateral oblique
    sagittal MPR images through the foramina; diffusion weighted images
    and corresponding ADC map.

    Comparison: None

    Findings: The craniovertebral junction and overall alignment are
    normal. The signal intensity in the bone marrow is normal on
    T1-weighted images when compared with intervertebral disc signal.

    C2-C3: There is no canal stenosis or foraminal narrowing.
    C3-C4: There is a small disc osteophyte complex causing mild
    effacement of the ventral thecal sac. There are bilateral uncinate
    spurs causing moderate left and severe right neural foraminal
    narrowing.
    C4-C5: There is a small disc osteophyte complex with a left
    paracentral component causing mild to moderate canal stenosis and mild
    effacement of the leftward aspect of the cord. There are bilateral
    uncinate spurs causing moderate left and severe right foraminal
    narrowing.
    C5-C6: There is a disc osteophyte complex causing moderate canal
    narrowing without increased cord signal. There are bilateral uncinate
    spurs causing moderate left and severe right foraminal narrowing.
    C6-C7: There is no canal stenosis or foraminal narrowing.

    A limited evaluation of the upper thoracic spine shows no evidence of
    fracture or dislocation involving the visualized levels. Disks are
    normal.

    Result Impression
    Impression:
    1. Moderate and severe degenerative changes in cervical spine as
    described above worse at the C5-C6 canal and multiple right-sided
    neural foramina. Cord signal is normal.
    2. Normal upper thoracic spine MRI

    Result Narrative
    Indication: Upper and lower extremity radicular and spastic symptoms.

    Technique: Lumbar spine MRI without contrast. The following images
    were obtained: Sagittal T1 and T2 images; diffusion weighted images
    and corresponding ADC map; axial T1 and T2 images which extend from
    the L1-L2 intervertebral disc through the L5-S1 disc.

    Comparison: None

    Findings: Alignment is normal . The signal intensity in the bone
    marrow is normal on T1-weighted images when compared with
    intervertebral disc signal. The conus medullaris is in normal
    position and terminates at the L1 level. Spinal cord signal is
    within normal limits at all levels.

    L1-L2: There is no canal stenosis or neural foraminal narrowing.
    L2-L3: There is no canal stenosis or neural foraminal narrowing.
    L3-L4: There is no canal stenosis or neural foraminal narrowing.
    L4-L5: There is a diffuse disc bulge with a larger right foraminal
    component as well as mild buckling of ligamentum flavum and facet
    arthropathy causing moderate right lateral recess stenosis and
    foraminal narrowing.
    L5-S1: There is no canal stenosis or neural foraminal narrowing.

    Result Impression
    Impression:
    1. Moderate degenerative changes at the right L4-L5 lateral recess and
    foramen.

    I don’t understand why there are so many discrepancies from MRI to MRI. Will you please help me understand what all of this means and how it pertains to my symptoms? I am particularly interested in my 2006 MRI.

    With much gratitude,
    Queen V

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