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  • Donald Corenman, MD, DC
    Moderator
    Post count: 8660

    Congenital cervical stenosis means you were born with a spinal canal that is narrowed. This by itself does not generally cause cord compression. However with the typical degenerative changes that all of us undergo with aging-the combination of a small canal with bone spur and disc bulge compresses the cord.

    This cord compression is magnified by motion. Bending your head backwards (extension) reduces the diameter of the canal by as much as 30%. Most patients who develop myelopathy (dysfunction of the cord) do so by “battering the cord” with motion. This motion is generally produces painless injury as the cord has no nociceptors (pain signalers/receptors).

    The two surgeries designed to decompress from the front are the ACDF and the ADR (artificial disc replacement). The ACDF removes the spurs and bulges and returns the height of the degenerative disc back to “normal”. This procedure indirectly decompresses the back of the canal by this height restoration.

    The ligamentum flavum (which lines the back of the spinal canal) buckles into the canal from degenerative changes which obviously narrows the canal even more. The height restoration of the ACDF from the front stretches this ligamentum flavum and reduces the buckling which opens the canal even more.

    The ADR on the other hand is not designed to really restore height of the vertebral column (which is why these devices cannot be used on a collapsed disc in the first place). The surgery to place the ADR will remove the bulges and spurs that project into the front of the canal. Of course, motion is preserved by the use of these devices which is good and bad.

    The good of course is motion preservation but that comes with a price. These devices can and do fail. If they fail, they are generally easy to revise to an ACDF. Here is the rub. Preserved motion will allow the canal to narrow with extension. If there is too much extension or the body naturally redevelops a spur (motion is the causation of spur formation), this motion can put the cord into compression again.

    The laminoplasty is a good tool to use to decompress the canal. This “takes the roof off the house” to prevent the pincer mechanism from compressing the cord. If you do have kyphosis (the reverse of the normal lordosis that most necks have), the surgery is less successful as the cord can still remain draped across the bone spurs in the front of the neck.

    The problem with the laminoplasty is that the cord does drift back and a small percentage of patients will have a stretch injury to the C5 nerve (C5 is the shortest nerve and has the least amount of stretch capability). This is generally a temporary setback but there are rare permanent C5 root injuries.

    Dr. Corenman

    PLEASE REMEMBER, THIS FORUM IS MEANT TO PROVIDE GENERAL INFORMATION ON SPINE ANATOMY, CONDITIONS AND TREATMENTS. TO GET AN ACCURATE DIAGNOSIS, YOU MUST VISIT A QUALIFIED PROFESSIONAL IN PERSON.
     
    Donald Corenman, MD, DC is a highly-regarded spine surgeon, considered an expert in the area of neck and back pain. Trained as both a Medical Doctor and Doctor of Chiropractic, Dr. Corenman earned academic appointments as Clinical Assistant Professor and Assistant Professor of Orthopaedic Surgery at the University of Colorado Health Sciences Center, and his research on spine surgery and rehabilitation has resulted in the publication of multiple peer-reviewed articles and two books.
    ashbyboulware
    Member
    Post count: 11

    Dr Corenman, I am a 38 year old male. In october of 2012 my left arm went numb unexpectedly after weeks of neck pain,shoulder and arm pain, and upper shoulder spasms. I was also experiencing intermittent chest wall pain. After a doctor consult, a nuclear stress test and mri were ordered. Stress test was normal, Mri came back with this radiologic report.Their are slight central disc bulges at c4-5, c5-6,c6-7, without significant spinal stenosis. Their is mild neural foraminal narrowing bilaterally at c5-c6. The right unconvertebral hypertrophy at c4-c5 results in mild right neural frontal narrowing. Their is slight frontal narrowing on the front at c3-c4. The cervical spinal cord demonstrates appropriate signal intensity. No epidural collections are identified. After discussings with my doctor i opted for conservation and was managing fine with Meloxicam and Robaxin. In January 2013 things changed. I was en route to work when a driver ran a red light on a busy highway. A vehicle swerved to avoid hitting the vehicle and struck my vehicle, causing it to hydroplane. I lost control and crossed the highway divider, entering a pile of cars. All vehicles were moving approximately 50-60 mph, as was I. When i hit the divider my vehicle bounced and turned sideways and fortunately I was struck on the passenger side(very violently). The crash resulted in horrible whiplash, and i was taken to the e.r. for a ct scan. The e.r was very busy that morning, and since my neck wasnt broken they sent me home with flexoril and advil and a “contact your primary” letter. about 3 days post wreck in addition all the whiplash and ddd symptoms in my neck arm chest fingers etc, I began to feel a vertical line interscapularlly/medial border on the left side of my body that felt like an electrical transmission line running down it.I saw my doctor immediately and notified him of the new symptom. He decided that their was so much inflammation in my body from whiplash, that it could possibly go away after the inflammation died down. Well, the interscapular pain continued to progress. The pain in the left scapula radiated, throbbed, burned. Muscles spasmed all day to the point that it would lock that area up. My other radiculopathy symptoms became more pronounced.Essentially my condition was deteriorating. Based on the location of where i told my primary i hurt(left interscapular, medial border), he wanted to order a thoracic mri. I asked and felt that with my known ddd, and based on the new symptom,I felt that with the whiplash trauma to my neck that a cervical was more prudent than thoracic, as obviously the thoracic spine is more reinforced. I asked could we not do both since i would be on the mri table? He explained that insurance would only pay for 1 body part at a time and, “we already know your neck is messed up anyway”. So I as the patient, agreed to the thoracic, which pretty much came back uneventful with the exception of 2 notations…i am summarizing..minimal loss of height involving the upper endplate of t8 vertebrae with no evidence of bone marrow edema(mri performed 3/26/13, wreck 1/15/2013). Some minimal degenerative disc changes noted, including a small central protrusion at t7-8, and t9-10. I chalked this up as not part of my pain. At this point I felt that my problem was out of the scope of my primary and asked for a competent referral to a specialist which he gladly obliged. The specialist was a neuro-surgeon who also specialized in musculoskeletal disorders. His pedigree seemed to make him well qualified. On the date of my appointment we met. I gave him all the backstory going back to oct 2012 with a disc containing the mri from nov 2012, thoracic mri, ct scan from er along with radiology reports. He concurred with me that another cervical mri was in order. he ordered it. However, no flexion, extension, static xrays of any kind were taken. He never palpated anything and I dont remember doing any range of motion tests. After the mri was done I was scheduled for a follow up in approx 1 week from date of mri. At this point it was April 2013, and I was in chronic daily pain. The scapular pain was unwielding. To make matters worse, I am a telecom technician which requires me to carry heavy equipment, and to place my body in positions kinetically that caused extreme pain. I went and picked up the mri report 3 days before my follow up, so sure that based on how badly i felt, the problem would be in BOLD, Blatantly obvious what was causing it. To my dismay, the mri report done by a farmed out radiologist essentially used radiologic terms to say that they used the nov 2012 for a comparison, and that their was no noteable changes..nothing. I was devastated. I consulted a friend who was a pt that day, and he told me he knew the doctor, and that in his opinion, if I wasnt an immediate candidate for surgery he would punt me. I made plans to use him for P.T. if that is the route the doctor wanted to go to get me out of his office. When I got home my wife knew I was a wreck. my back was essentially locked up in the scapular area from spasms. She laid me down to give me a massage and once i was on my stomach, it became very obvious that their was a huge pocket of edema all around the left scapula. She took numerous pictures so I could give my doctor more documentation that something was wrong. On my follow up, he discussed the mri, and basically punted me. He didnt really want to look at the pictures. He essentially offered nothing. he mentioned pt and asked if I had done any. I told him i had no problem with pt, but could he please tell me what was causing me my pain so that i could tell the therapist what i needed therapy on. He glossed that over and jumped at the chance to send me packing when i mentioned my pt friend. I was in such god awful pain, I asked him if he felt pain management was prudent as my quality of life was almost nonexistent. As an afterthought he said he would have his psyiatrist call me for an appointment to possibly try some blocks. the psyiatrist called to schedule and upon hearing my injury was from an auto wreck and that I had retained counsel, they did not want my business. I informed them that my lawyer was to negotiate between me and my insurer, as the cause of the wreck was essentially a hit and run. they didnt care. I was dismayed. For a reference the second cervical mri was on 4/9/2013, almost 3 months from the wreck. I started pt and went through 8 sessions. No help. PT referred me to psyiatrist who performed a multi level cervical epidural down to somewhere in the thoracic area. Absolutely no relief. The only time I ever got any relief from the daily pain was from hydrocodone prescribed by my primary and when i laid down flat on my back. Hydrocodone made it somewhat tolerable, taking a lttle of the edge off. laying down and i didnt hurt. At this point I began to panic as I was amassing lots of missed time from work, spending lots of time and money at various doctors, and felt no closer to resolution. I kept insisting that based on the scapular pain arising 2-3 days post wreck, something had changed. It also appeared muscles in my back,shoulder, and upper arm were wasting. Long story short, I was evaluated by another doctor, an ortho approx a week after my block. He took x-rays first. Took a history, symptoms etc. examined me and then read the radiologic reports. He noted that my facet joint at c5-c6 looked “odd” from the x rays.That it looked like it had sustained a small avulsion fracture. He then said, let me go look at the mri. he returned 2 mins later and point blank told me that I had a herniation at c5-c6 with spinal stenosis. I asked him, “how does this get missed by all these professionals”? His reply was he wasnt really sure how…its right there..He then discussed possible acdf if diagnosis was correct. He then sent me for a snrb at c5-c6.he stated as you have, that if i even got a coupla hours or relief from the numbing agent that they were on top of it. The only flaw with this plan is that you are told to rest and take it easy. Which I did. And if I rest and lay down i dont hurt regardless. I
    will say that i was pain free for at least a coupla hours. But thats about it. On my follow up with him, I told him that I had some relief from the snrb. He then decided the best course of action was to wait, and that hopefully the herniation would dry out and be absorbed. This was mid July. As a sidenote, they also did a nerve conduction test to rule out plexopathy from radiculopathy. the brachial plexus was ruled out. Although very happy that somebody had finally acknowledged that something had happened from the wreck and validated my suspicions, I physically continued to degress. I started losing motor function in my left arm. Bicep was burning all the time and fatigued. My thumb and pointer fingered hammered on me all day. Cool damp weather wreaked havoc on me. Hypersensitive to cold or heat. But the absolute worst has been the Scapular pain which has never deviated in giving me a daily thrashing. I finally conferred with my pt, who referred me to a very respectable neurosurgeon. I arrived early and had more xrays taken. The neurosurgeon ran the gamut of range of motion tests and reflex tests. Looked at my MRI, and once again confirmed that the herniation was there and that my symptoms were textbook c5-c6 compression with disc disease. I was pre-admitted that day for acdf c5-c6, and 3 weeks later on sept 11th(8 months after wreck, and 11 months from first presentation of neurologic deficits) I had the acdf procedure. The surgery was flawless. I am approx 23 days from surgery and my fusion seems to be healing very quickly. Titanium plate with spacers and bone shavings were used. I ate a whole meal 3 hours after surgery. Solid food. Stayed overnight and released the next day. was very sedentary in the hospital, and the first day or so as I was home. However walking around was no trouble even the day of surgery. I wore no collars of any kind and have at this point minimal stiffness and good range of motion. Unfortunately, my symptoms have never really diminished. Felt better the first coupla days, but i chalk that up to laying down most of the time. As i began to slowly get back in the groove, all my symptoms have come roaring back with the exception of the pins and needles in my arm. Hand and arm are still very hypersensitive. As more time passes my bicep pain and weakness has returned and the coup de grace..the scapular pain is still wreaking havoc on me. So, All that being said, I have a handful of questions. Do you agree with the diagnosis of c5-c6 being the problem? For the record, I had myelopathy associated with the herniation, so the surgery I feel was necessary, regardless. Did too much time go by before surgical intervention to hope for a recovery of the nerve root. The surgeon said he had to remove numerous osteophytes that were part of the nerve compression problem in addition to the herniation. Is it too early to evaluate nerve root damage? I need to know sooner rather than later if its another level causing me problems scapularly due to limited disability off work, and the clock ticking on compression if its elsewhere? should I ask for a nerve conduction test for the muscles around the scapula innervated by c6? Part of my struggle with the pain that has remained is the not knowing for sure that the right nerve was addressed for my primary complaint or is it chronic radiculopatyhy? And lastly, how does a radiologist fail to note a herniation that is causing nerve root compression and spinal stenosis, and did I not have enough neurologic “deficits” for the first neuro to realize the urgency of my case. What is his standard professionally? And could you comment on the possibility of non repairable nerve root damage in my case based on duration and symptoms. Where did I go wrong? Thanks Dr C, I have learned alot on this forum.

    Donald Corenman, MD, DC
    Moderator
    Post count: 8660

    First, your symptoms as you are aware can cross over. Peripheral neuropathy can mask or even exacerbate cord and root compression symptoms so diagnosis can be difficult.

    You had your images from a 0.35 Tesla MRI machine. This is an underpowered machine (normal machines are 1.5 Tesla and the machine I use is 3.0 Tesla). Imaging information from this machine can be deceiving but we will continue as if this information is precise and accurate.

    Regarding spinal cord compression, the radiologist reports “Critical osseous central canal stenosis is not demonstrated”. However he or she goes on to report “posterior herniation of the intervertebral disc effacing the cervical spinal cord as shown on series 3” referring to C5-6 and “posterior herniation of the intervertebral disc effacing the cervical spinal cord eccentric toward the left side of midline as shown on series 2” referring to C6-7.

    The term “effacing the cord” is generally a good descriptor for a spinal structure that “touches the cord” but does not compress it. I will assume that this radiologist is correct and you do not have myelopathy from cord compression therefore the symptoms you demonstrate do not originate from myelopathy (paresthesias, imbalance, loss of fine motor skills).

    You do have foraminal stenosis (narrowing of the exit holes for the nerve roots), partially at C4-5 on the right and bilaterally at C5-6 and C6-7 “hypertropic changes of the uncovertebral joints and facet joints of the cervical spine with compromise of the right and left c5-c6 and c6-c7 neural foramina and right c4-c5 neural foramina. This is less pronounced than at the c4-c5 level than the c5-c6 and c6-c7 levels”.

    This narrowing can cause symptoms of the C6 and C7 nerve roots. See the section on “Symptoms of cervical nerve injuries” under the topic “Nerve injuries and recovery” to understand what potential symptoms can occur.

    An EMG can be helpful if performed by a meticulous neurologist as with a combination of peripheral neuropathy and possible radiculopathy, this test can help to differentiate the two different disorders.

    “Advanced cervical spine pathology” is another term for CNS, one of my favorite terms (crappy neck syndrome just like CBS-crappy back syndrome). It means nothing by itself as many patients are walking around with CNS or CBS and don’t even know it.

    Might you need surgery? I cannot answer as your symptoms need to be correlated to your structural pathology. I think the EMG might be helpful but a very thorough history and physical examination is one of the most important diagnostic tools for identification of your disorder.

    Dr. Corenman

    PLEASE REMEMBER, THIS FORUM IS MEANT TO PROVIDE GENERAL INFORMATION ON SPINE ANATOMY, CONDITIONS AND TREATMENTS. TO GET AN ACCURATE DIAGNOSIS, YOU MUST VISIT A QUALIFIED PROFESSIONAL IN PERSON.
     
    Donald Corenman, MD, DC is a highly-regarded spine surgeon, considered an expert in the area of neck and back pain. Trained as both a Medical Doctor and Doctor of Chiropractic, Dr. Corenman earned academic appointments as Clinical Assistant Professor and Assistant Professor of Orthopaedic Surgery at the University of Colorado Health Sciences Center, and his research on spine surgery and rehabilitation has resulted in the publication of multiple peer-reviewed articles and two books.
    Donald Corenman, MD, DC
    Moderator
    Post count: 8660

    Your report has some inconsistencies that I am unclear. You report an ACDF procedure at C5-7. You however have a plate on the anterior cervical spine from C4-C7 according to the CT reading but the X-ray reading notes a plate from C5-C7.

    The CT/myelogram notes some spinal stenosis at C4-5 but this is not noted on the MRI. What is interesting is that there is no comment regarding fusion status of C5-7. Did these levels fuse or not?

    Your symptoms could be related to myelopathy (injury to the cord due to compression) but this is not reflected by the MRI findings (normal cord signal at all levels). You could also have continued symptoms due to unresolved carpel tunnel syndrome in your hand.

    I think you need a new set of eyes to take a careful look at you, your post-operative imaging and come to a conclusion regarding the cause of your current symptoms.

    Dr. Corenman

    PLEASE REMEMBER, THIS FORUM IS MEANT TO PROVIDE GENERAL INFORMATION ON SPINE ANATOMY, CONDITIONS AND TREATMENTS. TO GET AN ACCURATE DIAGNOSIS, YOU MUST VISIT A QUALIFIED PROFESSIONAL IN PERSON.
     
    Donald Corenman, MD, DC is a highly-regarded spine surgeon, considered an expert in the area of neck and back pain. Trained as both a Medical Doctor and Doctor of Chiropractic, Dr. Corenman earned academic appointments as Clinical Assistant Professor and Assistant Professor of Orthopaedic Surgery at the University of Colorado Health Sciences Center, and his research on spine surgery and rehabilitation has resulted in the publication of multiple peer-reviewed articles and two books.
    Donald Corenman, MD, DC
    Moderator
    Post count: 8660

    Paragraphs please next time to allow me to follow your train of though more easily.

    “I have weakness in arms hand legs balence issue,pain in shoulder arm and and neck and headaches dizziness tingeling and knumbness in my finger and side of great toe positive slr,ue 4/5 reflexes 3/4 planters and flexers b/l decreased sensation in big toes and right sied urinary dificulties and and some lack of sensation arms,im am having difficulty with babance,difficulty with doing small stuff with hands ,grasping things is difficult and numbness and tingeling are always present in my right hand and fingers and this is only my neck issue”

    These are classic symptoms for myelopathy (see website) and myelopathy is associated with cord compression.

    This MRI reading indicates cord compression

    “borderline stenosis 8 mmm ap cervical cord size in few areas c5.6 disk spur and material in anterior epidural space with complete effacement,bony right narrowing 8mm ap cord size,c57 disk and spur material”

    Spinal canals are typically at least 13mm in diameter.

    I had a hard time understanding if you had cord signal change on your MRI.

    Did you have flexion/extension X-rays taken and if so, what did they reveal. Remember that the MRI is performed with you lying down and the X-rays reveal what gravity and motion does to your neck.

    Dr. Corenman

    PLEASE REMEMBER, THIS FORUM IS MEANT TO PROVIDE GENERAL INFORMATION ON SPINE ANATOMY, CONDITIONS AND TREATMENTS. TO GET AN ACCURATE DIAGNOSIS, YOU MUST VISIT A QUALIFIED PROFESSIONAL IN PERSON.
     
    Donald Corenman, MD, DC is a highly-regarded spine surgeon, considered an expert in the area of neck and back pain. Trained as both a Medical Doctor and Doctor of Chiropractic, Dr. Corenman earned academic appointments as Clinical Assistant Professor and Assistant Professor of Orthopaedic Surgery at the University of Colorado Health Sciences Center, and his research on spine surgery and rehabilitation has resulted in the publication of multiple peer-reviewed articles and two books.
    elesh
    Participant
    Post count: 13

    I have been suffering from neck pain for 2 years or more now. I had an MRI and Dr suggested I need surgery. I would like some advice and help if surgery is only option or i can have any other treatment. I am very scared of the surgery please help to clarify this result as it seems too complicated for me. Many thanks

    MRI CERVICAL SPINE

    TECHNIQUE
    Multi-planar,multi-sequence MRI of cervical spine was performed on 1.5 tesla phillips acheva scanner using 8 cahnnel nv coil

    OBSERVATION

    Curvature and Alignment
    Straightening and reversal of the normal cervical lordosis.
    Vertebral Bodies

    With anterior and posterior osteophytic formations especially at c5/6. Focal fatty deposits/hemangioma within the c5 vertebral body.

    Posterior elements

    Facetal arthropathy especially at c7/01 on theleft

    Discs

    Small right foraminal disc herniation at C3/4 right paramedian and foraminal disc herniation at c5/6 identing the discs and impinging upon the nerve roots at the recess and neuroforament left paramedian disc. Osteophyte complex at c6/7 also obliterating the theca and imping upon the nerve roots at recess and neuroforamen.

    Canal and Foramins
    Canal stenosis of about 8mm at c5/6, c6/7
    sorry posted in wrong sections before and dont know how to change. sorry for repost

    Paravertebral sof tissues normal.

    Spinal cord

    Slight cord impingement by the posterior disc osteophytic complexes at c5/6, c6/7. No obvious cord signal changes seen.

    Left paramedian disc osteophyte disc osteophyte complex at C6, the nerve roots at the recess and neurofaramen canal stenosis of about 8mm and slight cord impingement without myelopathy at c5/6, c6/7

    Thanks please advice if any further test can be done before I can decide if surgery is necessary and if surgery is only option in my case. Thanks

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