opinion about discogel?

///opinion about discogel?
opinion about discogel?

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  • Avatarnikolaus
    Member
    Post count: 11

    Hi,

    I was just wondering, have you heard of discogel? what is your opinion about it? Do you think it is scam? Does it work?

    There are some doctors in my country which praise it as a miracle solution.

    AvatarDonald Corenman, MD, DC
    Moderator
    Post count: 7138

    This product is new. According to the concept which I copied below from the manufacturer’s site, this product is designed to denature the proteins in the disc. This means this product will break the proteins down which are designed to absorb water and hold pressure in the disc.

    This is a repeat of the old chymopapain treatment that was dropped some years ago because of serious complications. Any product that denatures proteins can leak out of the disc space into the canal. Unfortunately, the canal is full of proteins. If this leaks out into the canal, disaster can occur. I would not consider this to be a treatment that I would want my patients to undergo.

    FROM THE MANUFACTURER SITE: “The latest development in this area is the intra-discal micro-therapy with DiscoGel®. This treatment method, which as developed by French researchers, utilizes a congealed alcohol mixed with a contrast agent, which is injected through a thin cannula directly into the intervertebral disc. The compound results in a loss of the water storage capacity of the intervertebral disc by denaturation the proteo-glycan matrix of the nucleus pulposus. This in turn results in a progressing decompression of the effected spinal nerves within hours to a few days”.

    Dr. Corenman

    PLEASE REMEMBER, THIS FORUM IS MEANT TO PROVIDE GENERAL INFORMATION ON SPINE ANATOMY, CONDITIONS AND TREATMENTS. TO GET AN ACCURATE DIAGNOSIS, YOU MUST VISIT A QUALIFIED PROFESSIONAL IN PERSON.
     
    Donald Corenman, MD, DC is a highly-regarded spine surgeon, considered an expert in the area of neck and back pain. Trained as both a Medical Doctor and Doctor of Chiropractic, Dr. Corenman earned academic appointments as Clinical Assistant Professor and Assistant Professor of Orthopaedic Surgery at the University of Colorado Health Sciences Center, and his research on spine surgery and rehabilitation has resulted in the publication of multiple peer-reviewed articles and two books.
    AvatarADR Seeker
    Member
    Post count: 3

    Dr. Corenman post=1006 wrote: This product is new. According to the concept which I copied below from the manufacturer’s site, this product is designed to denature the proteins in the disc. This means this product will break the proteins down which are designed to absorb water and hold pressure in the disc.

    This is a repeat of the old chymopapain treatment that was dropped some years ago because of serious complications. Any product that denatures proteins can leak out of the disc space into the canal. Unfortunately, the canal is full of proteins. If this leaks out into the canal, disaster can occur. I would not consider this to be a treatment that I would want my patients to undergo.

    FROM THE MANUFACTURER SITE: “The latest development in this area is the intra-discal micro-therapy with DiscoGel®. This treatment method, which as developed by French researchers, utilizes a congealed alcohol mixed with a contrast agent, which is injected through a thin cannula directly into the intervertebral disc. The compound results in a loss of the water storage capacity of the intervertebral disc by denaturation the proteo-glycan matrix of the nucleus pulposus. This in turn results in a progressing decompression of the effected spinal nerves within hours to a few days”.

    Dr. Corenman

    DiscoGel is the percutaneous injection of radio opaque gelled alcohol. When in comes in contact will water it forms an solid artificial nuclear prothesis so the chances of it leaking are slim and none.

    Even if it did leak it’s alcohol so it cannot harm adjacent tissue it is not proteolytic. Papain IS a proteolytic enzyme and is will not become solid and it will damage adjacent tissue.

    In all the clinical trials there were ZERO adverse reactions. The same cannot be said for the any other treatment offered to Americans. It is 86% effective so compared to fusions and the crappy ADRs available to Americans DiscoGel is far superior.

    So Doc is it that you don’t know that alcohol won’t dissolve tissues or are you being less than honest?

    Folks, if DiskoGel, Ozone diskectomies and NeoDisk and M6 were available in the US the spine surgery market would be cut in half.

    If you want your spine fixed right and you can afford it, go to England, Spain, Germany or Brazil.

    Check out any spine forum and read what people are saying about American surgeon VS foreign surgeons. As to you “Dr” I’ll be discussing you and watching you.

    AvatarDonald Corenman, MD, DC
    Moderator
    Post count: 7138

    I do not know who you are as you do not identify yourself. Are you the manufacturer of this product?

    Regardless- the website notes in the official blurb of “denaturation of the proteins”. Alcohol is tissue toxic but not an enzyme so I would think there is something else in the formula that causes this proteolytic destructive process.

    I always find clinical trials to be suspect from the manufacturer until other none-financially related studies are brought to bear but that is my nature. No complications in a study is highly unusual as simple facet blocks and epidurals have typical complications and those procedures are a simple as it gets.

    Your statements regarding “DiskoGel, Ozone diskectomies and NeoDisk and M6 were available in the US the spine surgery market would be cut in half” are not supported by the literature or my experience.

    Dr. Corenman

    PLEASE REMEMBER, THIS FORUM IS MEANT TO PROVIDE GENERAL INFORMATION ON SPINE ANATOMY, CONDITIONS AND TREATMENTS. TO GET AN ACCURATE DIAGNOSIS, YOU MUST VISIT A QUALIFIED PROFESSIONAL IN PERSON.
     
    Donald Corenman, MD, DC is a highly-regarded spine surgeon, considered an expert in the area of neck and back pain. Trained as both a Medical Doctor and Doctor of Chiropractic, Dr. Corenman earned academic appointments as Clinical Assistant Professor and Assistant Professor of Orthopaedic Surgery at the University of Colorado Health Sciences Center, and his research on spine surgery and rehabilitation has resulted in the publication of multiple peer-reviewed articles and two books.
    AvatarADR Seeker
    Member
    Post count: 3

    I don’t work for DiscGel. I am a patient advocate who keeps his eye on deadly American doctors. The leading cause of death and injury in the US is the medical industry.

    DiscoGel has two ingredients alcohol and tungsten.

    Also, fusions fail at an alarming rate. Go to any spine site other than Spine-Health and you will find that the victims you get fusion regret it whereas the one who can afford to go outside the US and get a NeoDisk or the M6 disk are thrilled.

    Do you work for Medtronics? Do you get kickbacks from them?

    Are you OK with using Medtronic’s Infuse and implanting their metal on metal ion shedding ADR? It looks like you are.

    Congress is investigating the payment to Orthopaedic Surgeons to hide serious side effects of the Medtronic Infuse Bone Graft. In addition, a recently released report stated that during clinial trials, Medtronic was aware of problems with the Infuse Bone Graft device.

    The Plot Thickens!

    Minneapolis, MN: Two former employees of Medtronic Inc.’s spinal products division have alleged that over 100 physicians and physician groups received kickbacks to promote Medtronic’s Infuse Bone Graft. The former employees made their claims in a federal whistleblower lawsuit last year, however the lawsuit was only recently made public.

    AvatarDonald Corenman, MD, DC
    Moderator
    Post count: 7138

    I hope you can be neutral in your beliefs and to be open to some education.

    I have taken care of many patients from Europe and those with discal implants are the ones that I have seen that are unhappy. I am sure all are not unhappy but i see the failures and you need to be realistic. Implanted disc replacement material like discogel has demonstrated to fail in the same manner that herniated discs fail and possibly at a much higher rate.

    Go back to the Thalidomide scandal to understand how Europe’s data sometimes can be skewed. Not all information that Europe produces is accurate. I do agree that products can be approved faster but you must take the information with a grain of salt.

    In regard to Medtronics, I have received no money for use of products or any studies regarding their surgical products and Infuse. None-the-less, I am a big proponent of their products. I have been operating on the lumbar spine for more than 25 years and have been in spine for more than 35 years and think that Infuse is one of the most important breakthroughs in the last 20 years. Customer service from Medtronics is second to none and that is what you want in an operating room.

    I see “failed spine surgery” cases every day. About 40% of my practice are new patients suffering from this problem. There are many causes as you can read under “Failed spine surgery correction” and fusion failure is a small part of them. The biggest portion is wrong diagnosis and poor patient selection/education.

    I do receive payments from Medtronics for educating surgeons on the use of O-Arm and Stealth technology which are in my opinion, one of the other important breakthroughs that has occurred in spine surgery in the last 20 years. All proceeds go to research.

    Dr. Corenman

    PLEASE REMEMBER, THIS FORUM IS MEANT TO PROVIDE GENERAL INFORMATION ON SPINE ANATOMY, CONDITIONS AND TREATMENTS. TO GET AN ACCURATE DIAGNOSIS, YOU MUST VISIT A QUALIFIED PROFESSIONAL IN PERSON.
     
    Donald Corenman, MD, DC is a highly-regarded spine surgeon, considered an expert in the area of neck and back pain. Trained as both a Medical Doctor and Doctor of Chiropractic, Dr. Corenman earned academic appointments as Clinical Assistant Professor and Assistant Professor of Orthopaedic Surgery at the University of Colorado Health Sciences Center, and his research on spine surgery and rehabilitation has resulted in the publication of multiple peer-reviewed articles and two books.
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