Degenerative disc diease and L1 and L5

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ian d
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January 4, 2014 at 4:04 am

Post count: 2

#10048

Hi Dr Corenman,
Just had a few questions!!I am a 41 yr old male with lumbar back pain and I have sciatica and mid pelvic pain for about 3 months! It hurts when I sit down,lay on my back,or side,and in mornings when I get out of bed!It doesnt hurt when I stand or walk!I went to my p.c.p a month ago,and she requested a mri.I got the mri results and this is the findings:(short version)

L1/L2:Degenerative disc disease with a small likely Schmorls node in the mid anterior L1 verebral body.No evidence of surrounding edema.No evidence of canal,foraminal,or recess stenosis.There are mild anterior osphetic changes.

L2/l3-is fine

L3/l4-is fine with mild facet disease and ligament flavum thickening

L5/S1-there is a small focal area of fluid signal extending into a small central/left paracentral disc that is immediately abbuting the left S1 nerve root in the canal and in the proximal left recess.There are degenerative changes of the facets causing some narrowing of the left greater than the right foramina but no definitive impingement in the foramina.There is at least moderate facet disease and mild ligamentum flavum thickening.

Impressions:There is a central/left paracentral small disc protrusion with focal fluid that may represent a small annular tear that is immediately adjacent to the left S1 nerve root in the canal and entering into the left recess.Correlate for left S1 radicular symptoms.There is some loss of disc height and degenerative changes of the disc.

OK,..first question is on the L1 disc it says degenerative disc disease.is that why there is mild anterior osphetic changes(bone spurs?)!So I guess does that mean my disc’s are so worn out its bone on bone now causing osphetic changes?<--(no pain in area) Second question is L5/S1 area..I have read alot of different terms for herniated disc,some protrude,some bulge,some herniate.Is a protruding disc with a annular tear a herniated disc?It says focal fluid,just not sure if thats the nucleus leaking out.!! It hurts,im 230 pounds,and I guess with degenerative changes in disc,the weight puts more pressure on spine!! Any help would greatly be appreciated!
Oh,since its been 3 months of this pain,which is affecting my way of life,cant get comfortable sitting,sleeping,then should I try conservitave treatments first,then consider surgery?Thanks!

Donald Corenman, MD, DC
Moderator

January 5, 2014 at 1:25 am

Post count: 8660

#10054

You have buttocks and leg pain along with lower back pain. You have two levels of significance, L1-2 and L5-S1. Your symptoms of back and leg pain occur with sitting and are relieved with standing.

Most likely, the L1-2 level is not causing you symptoms. First, there is no evidence of any nerve compression here. The second is you don’t indicate any upper low back pain.

The L5-S1 level is most likely causing most of your symptoms. Herniated discs that compress the local nerve root (in this case S1) will cause buttocks and leg pain with sitting that is relieved by standing and walking. Lower back pain is caused by the annular tear.

A protruding disc with an annular tear is the definition of a herniated disc.

If you have no motor weakness (which would be noted as difficulty walking on your toes), then with three months of pain, if you were my patient, epidural steroid injections and therapy would be the next step in the treatment algorithm.

Dr. Corenman

PLEASE REMEMBER, THIS FORUM IS MEANT TO PROVIDE GENERAL INFORMATION ON SPINE ANATOMY, CONDITIONS AND TREATMENTS. TO GET AN ACCURATE DIAGNOSIS, YOU MUST VISIT A QUALIFIED PROFESSIONAL IN PERSON.

Donald Corenman, MD, DC is a highly-regarded spine surgeon, considered an expert in the area of neck and back pain. Trained as both a Medical Doctor and Doctor of Chiropractic, Dr. Corenman earned academic appointments as Clinical Assistant Professor and Assistant Professor of Orthopaedic Surgery at the University of Colorado Health Sciences Center, and his research on spine surgery and rehabilitation has resulted in the publication of multiple peer-reviewed articles and two books.

ian d
Member

January 5, 2014 at 3:09 am

Post count: 2

#10059

Okay,
Thanks for the feedback,really helpful!I mentioned that mild anterior osphetic changes were on the L1/L2,is that considered osteoarthritis?Or bone spurs?Is that gonna get worse without surgery?No pain,just concerned! Thanks again,you have answered all but this question,your awesome!!!<—–happy!

Donald Corenman, MD, DC
Moderator

January 5, 2014 at 11:58 am

Post count: 8660

#10062

I see non-symptomatic L1-2 degenerative changes all the time. Don’t worry about this if there are no symptoms.

Dr. Corenman

PLEASE REMEMBER, THIS FORUM IS MEANT TO PROVIDE GENERAL INFORMATION ON SPINE ANATOMY, CONDITIONS AND TREATMENTS. TO GET AN ACCURATE DIAGNOSIS, YOU MUST VISIT A QUALIFIED PROFESSIONAL IN PERSON.

Donald Corenman, MD, DC is a highly-regarded spine surgeon, considered an expert in the area of neck and back pain. Trained as both a Medical Doctor and Doctor of Chiropractic, Dr. Corenman earned academic appointments as Clinical Assistant Professor and Assistant Professor of Orthopaedic Surgery at the University of Colorado Health Sciences Center, and his research on spine surgery and rehabilitation has resulted in the publication of multiple peer-reviewed articles and two books.
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Donald Corenman, MD, DC

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81 reviews

Eric S

Sep 26, 2021

by Eric S on Donald Corenman, MD, DC

Successful pars repair at 46 years old

Back in November of 2018 (at 46 years old) I came from Vancouver BC to have a pars repair done with Dr. Donald Corenman at the Steadman Clinic in Vail Colorado. I'm finally posting this review nearly three years later in late 2021. The reason I waited so long was I wanted to know the final result before I posted my review. Unfortunately in that time Dr. Corenman has retired. Nevertheless, I want to post this review of Dr. Corenman and his staff at the Steadman Clinic in their excellent treatment of my L5 pars interarticularis.

I fractured my pars at age 42 back in 2014 when rolling on the gym floor, and was denied treatment by the Canadian healthcare system, probably due to my age. First my GP told me there was no surgical option for a pars defect, which was quite incorrect! I tried to live with it, but the symptoms worsened (periodic random spine slippage and weeks of resultant pain after just bending over to tie my shoe, so I eventually learned to mostly squat and hardly bend). When I finally consulted with Canadian spine surgeons, I was told they believed my pars defect had been congenital (since birth). This was absurd, considering I had done extreme martial arts (including jiu jitsu) for years prior, as well as 5 years of reinforcing steel full time in my 20s, probably the hardest job on the back you can find. No pars defect like mine would possibly have allowed this--ergo it was impossible that I had had the defect since birth. I did however have an asymptomatic congenital spina bifida occulta that made me more susceptible to a pars fracture. In 2014 in one instant, I went from having the strongest back people I knew said they'd ever seen, to being unable to safely bend over and tie my shoe without a non-negligible risk of my spine slipping randomly (which would lead to weeks of pain after each occurrence). This was due to the unilateral L5 pars defect, otherwise known as spondylolysis. It was when lying in pain on the floor 4 years later after maybe the 6th spine slippage event post injury, that I had had enough, and resolved to have surgery. If Canada's "universal health care" said no, I would make lemonade from lemons, and find the very best surgeon in the world at pars repairs. That was Dr. Donald Corenman. Dr. Corenman back in 2018 ran a website https://neckandback.com/ that dedicated many pages to the science of every aspect of pars repairs, from eligibility (good discs on MRI), to best surgical techniques (minimal open compared to minimally invasive), best imaging to use (i.e., O-Arm with Stealth imaging vs. older fluoroscopy), the ideal amount of BMP to use and why not use too much or too little, and much more, all to do with pars repairs, pages upon pages of his site just on the pars, with scientific references and his own extensive expert opinion. As a health research statistician, I was very impressed with this. It was in stark contrast to the websites of other spine surgeons which barely gave the pars a word or two, focusing almost exclusively on fusions. I had found the best surgeon in the world for pars repairs, and so after Dr. Corenman personally screened my MRI to ensure my discs were healthy, I booked the surgery.

Being 46 years old at the time of surgery in 2018, with a 4-year-old pars fracture from 2014 combined with a congenital SBO meant my pars fragment was somewhat atrophied, but it was "very solid", said Dr. Corenman in the operative report. Nevertheless, it was challenging with two things to fix, the pars and SBO, and OR time was around 4 hours. Recovery over the following months was guided by a very clear "Spine binder" from the Steadman Clinic with strict rules of "no BLT" (no bending, lifting or twisting), and illustrated physiotherapy guidelines. They even warned patients to avoid fish oil supplements, which could excessively dampen inflammation and hence slow bone healing. They answered many questions I had during months of recovery, with responses coming from the very supportive Lori Fugate (then director of Dr. Corenman's practice), and Ehrich Bean (then physician's assistant at the practice), as well as a couple calls with Dr. Corenman himself after two of the CT scans. Ehrich Bean offered great advice for taking the spine binder conservatively due to the nature of pars repairs vs. fusions. The final post-op CT scan I had was a couple weeks ago at 34 months post-op, and Dr. Corenman had retired, but I got a very positive and informative call from Eric Strauch (current PA at the Steadman Clinic under Dr. Corenman's replacement there, and who had also worked with Dr. Corenman previously). The staff at the Steadman Clinic were extremely supportive all the way through the process. I should mention, the local Canadian spine surgeon did offer me very good post-operative support including antibiotics as needed to deal with a mild surface incision-site infection early on, booking numerous x-rays when I felt something was amiss, as well as booking all four of my post-op CT scans. I am very grateful for that support also.

My final result shows plenty of solid bone across the pars and a healed SBO, with my vertebral body now a solid bone ring instead of being broken at two places as it was pre-op. Does my spine hold up in the real world? You bet! I have recently dug and moved several yards of dirt and sand and gravel by myself (shovel and wheelbarrow!) to fix our water main, pulled roots from the yard, moved several "portable" (these are HUGE) air conditioners up several flights of stairs my myself, and lifted weights. I now run 2 miles (3.2 KM) several times weekly with a hard 100 meter dash in the middle. I bend deeply before each run I go on, with no spine slippage. My spine feels amazing. I can bend over to do exercise, or real word tasks, with no risk of spine slippage.

My sincere thanks to God, Dr. Donald Corenman, Lori Fugate, Ehrich Bean, Eric Strauch, and the Steadman Clinic, as well as the Canadian spine surgeon who offered me excellent post-operative care back in Canada. You have all given me a new lease on life.

Sincerely,
Eric S

Robert S

May 11, 2021

by Robert S on Donald Corenman, MD, DC

Back Fusion Surgery

I had my entire lumbar spine fused in November of 2018. I had scoliosis , with pinched nerves that were so painful I could hardly walk - and standing for more than a few minutes was impossible. Even sitting was painful.
The fusion surgery produced immediate relief! And the recovery was much easier than I expected.
To this day I can do all the activities I love from hiking, to standing in a stream fly fishing to riding my bike long distances - or just walking down the street with my wife.
Kudos to Dr. Corenman and his staff, (including the two Erics) for taking such good care of me!

Leslie R

Jul 9, 2020

by Leslie R on Donald Corenman, MD, DC

TLIF

I had my TLIF surgery on 6/24/2020 by Dr. Corenman, I can not say enough good things about the Dr or his staff. I was always treated with respect and explained everything throughly, that made it easy for everyone to understand. I highly recommend Dr. Corenman and the Steadman Clinic.

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