A doosey: SI joint or Lumbar pain?

Tagged: Lumbar si sacroiliac joint radiculopathy l4 l5

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Typical
Participant

July 17, 2023 at 11:57 am

Post count: 10

#35758

I know you can’t give a definitive answer based off of a forum post, I’m just running it by you.

31 years old
Male

Had L4/L5 microdiscectomy December 2019.

Flare ups on and off, since.

Effected side: left. Pain was typical. Mostly originated in the left glute and radiated down to the toes with some tingling and numbness.

This time, it’s real bad.
It was aggravated by sitting down.
Not aggressively,not plopping down, just normally sitting down.

It happened after about 4 hours of sitting in a work vehicle. 5 hours that morning if you count my commute to work.

Got back up and my lower back muscles and gluten, piriformis,etc.
They all started tensing up and I could hardly walk.
Spasming resulting in a canted to the side posture started soon after and remains.

Urgent care was visited, X-rays of the lumbar spine were taken and showed nothing as far as the Doctor was concerned.

400mg Naproxen, 300mg-30mg Aceteminophen-codiene and 10mg cyclobenzaprine was prescribed and it helped.

Once that ran out, its back to being unbearably painful. Excruciating to sit, stand, and even lie down. Pillows under the knees in a supine position does not alleviate any pain.

The only success MAY come from sleeping sideways on the non painful side with a pillow between the legs.

Can’t stand for longer than a minute without intense pain and instability.

Walking down stairs if fine.
Walking UP stairs is a sure way to activate intense pain in the effected side.

Sitting hurts the effected side.

Any load bearing on the effected side results in pain.

The pain radiates from the upper left glute down the middle, the side glute, posterior hamstring and finally ending in the lateral calf.

What stands out to you?
What’s your hunch?
Sound like an SI joint problem or disc problem?

I’ll be seeing my orthopaedic surgeon, regardless, and possibly a chiropractor.

But, I’ve always respected your opinion and point of view and am genuinely eager to read your response.

Have a great day.

Typical
Participant

July 17, 2023 at 12:02 pm

Post count: 10

#35759

Also, I do remember a physical therapist ,recently (this year), telling me my effected leg was slightly shorter than my other leg.

I understand this can cause these types of problems.

Donald Corenman, MD, DC
Moderator

July 17, 2023 at 3:12 pm

Post count: 8660

#35760

I did a study on SI region pain and found the SI joint was the culprit only 6% of the time. Most likely, you have a recurrent disc herniation. A new MRI and an injection might be in your future. I assume you were examined and do not have motor weakness in your ankle or your buttocks.

Dr. Corenman

PLEASE REMEMBER, THIS FORUM IS MEANT TO PROVIDE GENERAL INFORMATION ON SPINE ANATOMY, CONDITIONS AND TREATMENTS. TO GET AN ACCURATE DIAGNOSIS, YOU MUST VISIT A QUALIFIED PROFESSIONAL IN PERSON.

Donald Corenman, MD, DC is a highly-regarded spine surgeon, considered an expert in the area of neck and back pain. Trained as both a Medical Doctor and Doctor of Chiropractic, Dr. Corenman earned academic appointments as Clinical Assistant Professor and Assistant Professor of Orthopaedic Surgery at the University of Colorado Health Sciences Center, and his research on spine surgery and rehabilitation has resulted in the publication of multiple peer-reviewed articles and two books.

Typical
Participant

July 21, 2023 at 1:06 pm

Post count: 10

#35765

You assumed correctly!

I WAS just checked out a few days ago by my orthopaedic surgeon and he believes the same.

No weakness in buttocks or ankle.

Noticed that the uneffected leg would set off nerve pain in The effected side!
Odd.

Also, I barely caught it, but he was orally dictating his notes to an assistant and during the straight leg raise tests, he noted them as “C-SLR”.
Not sure what that could mean.

I mentioned wanting to see a Chiro and he shot me a look that basically said “don’t do it.”
So that’s that, lol.

I’m going to get another MRI and we’ll take it from there.

Anyways, looks like you’re dead on the money, as usual.

Donald Corenman, MD, DC
Moderator

July 23, 2023 at 12:51 pm

Post count: 8660

#35767

“He was orally dictating his notes to an assistant and during the straight leg raise tests, he noted them as “C-SLR”. That is a contralateral straight les raise test (pain in opposite leg lifting up the “good” leg). This is also an indication of a new HNP.

Dr. Corenman

PLEASE REMEMBER, THIS FORUM IS MEANT TO PROVIDE GENERAL INFORMATION ON SPINE ANATOMY, CONDITIONS AND TREATMENTS. TO GET AN ACCURATE DIAGNOSIS, YOU MUST VISIT A QUALIFIED PROFESSIONAL IN PERSON.

Donald Corenman, MD, DC is a highly-regarded spine surgeon, considered an expert in the area of neck and back pain. Trained as both a Medical Doctor and Doctor of Chiropractic, Dr. Corenman earned academic appointments as Clinical Assistant Professor and Assistant Professor of Orthopaedic Surgery at the University of Colorado Health Sciences Center, and his research on spine surgery and rehabilitation has resulted in the publication of multiple peer-reviewed articles and two books.

Typical
Participant

September 5, 2023 at 3:19 pm

Post count: 10

#35804

Quick update.
An MRI revealed it’s a recurrent disc herniation at L4/L5 at 9mm.
The previous herniation pre microdiscectomy, was 5mm.
Not much disc material left to work with.
Looks like it’s gonna be a fusion.
I’m not thrilled about it and the recovery is scary looking.
But it’s better to get these things done while I’m still young, imo.
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Donald Corenman, MD, DC

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81 reviews

Eric S

Sep 26, 2021

by Eric S on Donald Corenman, MD, DC

Successful pars repair at 46 years old

Back in November of 2018 (at 46 years old) I came from Vancouver BC to have a pars repair done with Dr. Donald Corenman at the Steadman Clinic in Vail Colorado. I'm finally posting this review nearly three years later in late 2021. The reason I waited so long was I wanted to know the final result before I posted my review. Unfortunately in that time Dr. Corenman has retired. Nevertheless, I want to post this review of Dr. Corenman and his staff at the Steadman Clinic in their excellent treatment of my L5 pars interarticularis.

I fractured my pars at age 42 back in 2014 when rolling on the gym floor, and was denied treatment by the Canadian healthcare system, probably due to my age. First my GP told me there was no surgical option for a pars defect, which was quite incorrect! I tried to live with it, but the symptoms worsened (periodic random spine slippage and weeks of resultant pain after just bending over to tie my shoe, so I eventually learned to mostly squat and hardly bend). When I finally consulted with Canadian spine surgeons, I was told they believed my pars defect had been congenital (since birth). This was absurd, considering I had done extreme martial arts (including jiu jitsu) for years prior, as well as 5 years of reinforcing steel full time in my 20s, probably the hardest job on the back you can find. No pars defect like mine would possibly have allowed this--ergo it was impossible that I had had the defect since birth. I did however have an asymptomatic congenital spina bifida occulta that made me more susceptible to a pars fracture. In 2014 in one instant, I went from having the strongest back people I knew said they'd ever seen, to being unable to safely bend over and tie my shoe without a non-negligible risk of my spine slipping randomly (which would lead to weeks of pain after each occurrence). This was due to the unilateral L5 pars defect, otherwise known as spondylolysis. It was when lying in pain on the floor 4 years later after maybe the 6th spine slippage event post injury, that I had had enough, and resolved to have surgery. If Canada's "universal health care" said no, I would make lemonade from lemons, and find the very best surgeon in the world at pars repairs. That was Dr. Donald Corenman. Dr. Corenman back in 2018 ran a website https://neckandback.com/ that dedicated many pages to the science of every aspect of pars repairs, from eligibility (good discs on MRI), to best surgical techniques (minimal open compared to minimally invasive), best imaging to use (i.e., O-Arm with Stealth imaging vs. older fluoroscopy), the ideal amount of BMP to use and why not use too much or too little, and much more, all to do with pars repairs, pages upon pages of his site just on the pars, with scientific references and his own extensive expert opinion. As a health research statistician, I was very impressed with this. It was in stark contrast to the websites of other spine surgeons which barely gave the pars a word or two, focusing almost exclusively on fusions. I had found the best surgeon in the world for pars repairs, and so after Dr. Corenman personally screened my MRI to ensure my discs were healthy, I booked the surgery.

Being 46 years old at the time of surgery in 2018, with a 4-year-old pars fracture from 2014 combined with a congenital SBO meant my pars fragment was somewhat atrophied, but it was "very solid", said Dr. Corenman in the operative report. Nevertheless, it was challenging with two things to fix, the pars and SBO, and OR time was around 4 hours. Recovery over the following months was guided by a very clear "Spine binder" from the Steadman Clinic with strict rules of "no BLT" (no bending, lifting or twisting), and illustrated physiotherapy guidelines. They even warned patients to avoid fish oil supplements, which could excessively dampen inflammation and hence slow bone healing. They answered many questions I had during months of recovery, with responses coming from the very supportive Lori Fugate (then director of Dr. Corenman's practice), and Ehrich Bean (then physician's assistant at the practice), as well as a couple calls with Dr. Corenman himself after two of the CT scans. Ehrich Bean offered great advice for taking the spine binder conservatively due to the nature of pars repairs vs. fusions. The final post-op CT scan I had was a couple weeks ago at 34 months post-op, and Dr. Corenman had retired, but I got a very positive and informative call from Eric Strauch (current PA at the Steadman Clinic under Dr. Corenman's replacement there, and who had also worked with Dr. Corenman previously). The staff at the Steadman Clinic were extremely supportive all the way through the process. I should mention, the local Canadian spine surgeon did offer me very good post-operative support including antibiotics as needed to deal with a mild surface incision-site infection early on, booking numerous x-rays when I felt something was amiss, as well as booking all four of my post-op CT scans. I am very grateful for that support also.

My final result shows plenty of solid bone across the pars and a healed SBO, with my vertebral body now a solid bone ring instead of being broken at two places as it was pre-op. Does my spine hold up in the real world? You bet! I have recently dug and moved several yards of dirt and sand and gravel by myself (shovel and wheelbarrow!) to fix our water main, pulled roots from the yard, moved several "portable" (these are HUGE) air conditioners up several flights of stairs my myself, and lifted weights. I now run 2 miles (3.2 KM) several times weekly with a hard 100 meter dash in the middle. I bend deeply before each run I go on, with no spine slippage. My spine feels amazing. I can bend over to do exercise, or real word tasks, with no risk of spine slippage.

My sincere thanks to God, Dr. Donald Corenman, Lori Fugate, Ehrich Bean, Eric Strauch, and the Steadman Clinic, as well as the Canadian spine surgeon who offered me excellent post-operative care back in Canada. You have all given me a new lease on life.

Sincerely,
Eric S

Robert S

May 11, 2021

by Robert S on Donald Corenman, MD, DC

Back Fusion Surgery

I had my entire lumbar spine fused in November of 2018. I had scoliosis , with pinched nerves that were so painful I could hardly walk - and standing for more than a few minutes was impossible. Even sitting was painful.
The fusion surgery produced immediate relief! And the recovery was much easier than I expected.
To this day I can do all the activities I love from hiking, to standing in a stream fly fishing to riding my bike long distances - or just walking down the street with my wife.
Kudos to Dr. Corenman and his staff, (including the two Erics) for taking such good care of me!

Leslie R

Jul 9, 2020

by Leslie R on Donald Corenman, MD, DC

TLIF

I had my TLIF surgery on 6/24/2020 by Dr. Corenman, I can not say enough good things about the Dr or his staff. I was always treated with respect and explained everything throughly, that made it easy for everyone to understand. I highly recommend Dr. Corenman and the Steadman Clinic.

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