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#8388Topic: L5-S1 Disk Extrusion in forum BACK PAIN |
Dr. Corenman thank you for the what has to be the best resource on the internet for neck and back issues.
Im a 55 year old male, 200lbs, marathon runner. On 24 January I rolled out of bed to what felt like a giant cramp from the top of my left leg to my foot. I could barley walk or stand up. After several days I was able to limp around but had lots of left leg pain and tingling and numbness in my left foot. My Chiro diagnosed piriformis syndrome as the pain and soreness was worst in my left buttocks and hamstring. I also had a very, very sore left calf causing a pretty bad limp. On 2/15 I had an MRI of the low back which resulted in the following findings:
At L5-S1, minor buldge with a small paracentral disk extrusion and early facet arthropathy are noted. The extruded disk material extends 5-6mm caudally, slightly displaces the descending left S1 nerve root posteriorly and results in mild asymmetric effacement of the left lateral recess. There is a 5-6mm caudal extension of disk material into the left lateral recess.
I have been getting steadily better. The numbness and tingling has been gone for few weeks now. As of today I have no constant pain, my hamstring and left leg can be stretched fully without pain. I could not do that at first. Im able to walk without a limp now and I can cycle, swim and use the elliptical without pain. In fact I feel better after I do these exercises. I do have a weak left calf though as I cannot do single leg calf raises without assistance from my upper body. I dont seem to have much heel drop when toe walking. Im worried about my calf though. Do you think this will get better with time as well? Ive started an a regime of calf exercises in the hope of getting the strength back. What actions do you think I should take. Thank you so much for this board.
#8382 In reply to: When is it time for surgery? |I am as confused as you as to your surgeon’s plan. A posterior approach could mean central decompression (laminectomy or laminoplasty), posterior foraminotomy or fusion with or without instrumentation. I do not understand why the surgeon would need to remove bone from the back of the canal at the levels where he performed anterior fusion. There are rare times that an anterior surgery is not effective enough to decompress the spinal cord but that would be an unusual circumstance.
To reply that if your were “younger”, he would have fused all four levels is also confusing. The older a patient is, the more levels they can tolerate with fusion.
Your inability to “sing in tune” could be from injury to your superior laryngeal nerve. This nerve “tightens” the vocal cords to allow different pitches. Ask your surgeon about this.
Have your surgeon explain why he intends to perform surgery and at what levels. Look for understanding of the pathology seen on MRI or CT scan and how surgery will modify this pathology to your benefit.
Dr. Corenman
PLEASE REMEMBER, THIS FORUM IS MEANT TO PROVIDE GENERAL INFORMATION ON SPINE ANATOMY, CONDITIONS AND TREATMENTS. TO GET AN ACCURATE DIAGNOSIS, YOU MUST VISIT A QUALIFIED PROFESSIONAL IN PERSON.
Donald Corenman, MD, DC is a highly-regarded spine surgeon, considered an expert in the area of neck and back pain. Trained as both a Medical Doctor and Doctor of Chiropractic, Dr. Corenman earned academic appointments as Clinical Assistant Professor and Assistant Professor of Orthopaedic Surgery at the University of Colorado Health Sciences Center, and his research on spine surgery and rehabilitation has resulted in the publication of multiple peer-reviewed articles and two books.#8348 In reply to: about foraminotomy |The core preop symptoms that led me to surgery are all still there. None were severe/sharp even in preop – just chronic and causing me to not live the active life I had been (I have young kids, work out, in late 30s, etc). After 7mo of drugs, PT and 2 epidurals I was ready to try the PF procedure to “get back to normal”.
The preop symptoms jumped around oddly – those that were most disruptive were largely muscle spasms/ dull aches /the feeling of a knot (mostly around medial border of the scapula) – there 70% of the time, in addition fatigue and some dull aches along the upper paraspinals (this is every once in a while) – only 20-25% of the time but most impactful to life when there.
Less disruptive, I also had preop tingling in the thumb tip – 100% of the time , a dull tingling odd sensation in the bottom of my forearm running down to bottom of my wrist – 50% of time (this, and intensity of thumb tingling, was much more intense 7mo ago at the random onset of these issues – but calmed down considerably over the first few weeks). And maybe 10% of the time I’d feel an ache at the front of my shoulder at the tip. All these symptoms (which jumped around/came&went even preop – largely “going” with help of physio massage), I have felt on&off postop (with the medial border of the scapula aches pretty close to 100% of the time) – 4wks post PF.
New sensations POST op (all mild), incl a sensation/feeling of fatigue in my bicep. Also new is a sensation in my tricep – tricep is odd as while I have “severe formaninal stenosis” at C4, C5 & C6 … C7 is ok. I have of course some post surgery pain in neck but pretty mild/understandable.
I now worry re the underlying diagnosis / treatmnet plan … maybe a PF for C6 was not the right path … only 4wks so trying to balance patience(its early) with reality (no improvement after 4wks)
I will connect re a phone/e-consult
ThanksRotation and extension of the neck will load the facets in the back of the neck. It is common to hear a “crack” in many individuals as the facets are in a vacuum and will release that vacuum on occasion resulting in a “crack” This is the same sound heard when you “crack” your knuckles. This should be “painless”
Cracks associated with pain are another story. Instability can occur (the abnormal motion of one vertebra on another) which can lead to pain with the unstable motion. Couple that with the sensation of “a zap going through my back” and “my body gives a decent convulsion that is very brief” concerns me about cord compression. Heaviness in the legs could also go along with cord compression leading to myelopathy (see website).
A thorough physical examination will help to reveal if you have the beginnings of myelopathy. You should also ask for an MRI of your cervical spine.
Dr. Corenman
PLEASE REMEMBER, THIS FORUM IS MEANT TO PROVIDE GENERAL INFORMATION ON SPINE ANATOMY, CONDITIONS AND TREATMENTS. TO GET AN ACCURATE DIAGNOSIS, YOU MUST VISIT A QUALIFIED PROFESSIONAL IN PERSON.
Donald Corenman, MD, DC is a highly-regarded spine surgeon, considered an expert in the area of neck and back pain. Trained as both a Medical Doctor and Doctor of Chiropractic, Dr. Corenman earned academic appointments as Clinical Assistant Professor and Assistant Professor of Orthopaedic Surgery at the University of Colorado Health Sciences Center, and his research on spine surgery and rehabilitation has resulted in the publication of multiple peer-reviewed articles and two books.#8306 In reply to: Considering Second ADR |An ADR might work at the C5-6 level but there are some considerations that need to be taken into account. First is that this C5-6 level is very degenerative based upon MRI findings with “moderate to severe loss of disc height”. Reconstructing the C5-6 level to the previous height of the disc (which is what the ADR does for the most part) can increase or create new neck pain.
The second is that the ADR is designed to reduce the stress on the levels above and below to reduce degenerative changes. This device at C6-7 unfortunately did not work for you as C5-6 became very degenerative in spite of this ADR.
If you have developed myelopathy from compression of the cord, this disorder could be the source of of the tingling feeling in your legs. A simple physical examination can reveal if this is the case.
You might be better off with an ACDF but without review of your MRI and X-rays including flexion/extension, this is an unknown.
Dr. Corenman
PLEASE REMEMBER, THIS FORUM IS MEANT TO PROVIDE GENERAL INFORMATION ON SPINE ANATOMY, CONDITIONS AND TREATMENTS. TO GET AN ACCURATE DIAGNOSIS, YOU MUST VISIT A QUALIFIED PROFESSIONAL IN PERSON.
Donald Corenman, MD, DC is a highly-regarded spine surgeon, considered an expert in the area of neck and back pain. Trained as both a Medical Doctor and Doctor of Chiropractic, Dr. Corenman earned academic appointments as Clinical Assistant Professor and Assistant Professor of Orthopaedic Surgery at the University of Colorado Health Sciences Center, and his research on spine surgery and rehabilitation has resulted in the publication of multiple peer-reviewed articles and two books.Dr. Corenman,
Thank you so much for your response!
I had been to a chiropractor around 4-6 months ago because my neck was in bad shape. Pressure would build up very intensely, and I would get quite a few migraines.I still get that feeling of pressure in my neck and head, and with certain movements, the pressure shifts so that my hearing becomes distorted. I also get to the point where it almost feels squishy where the base of skull and spine meet (I would imagine that is just a distorted feeling), and if I rub along the spine for some relief in that area, I can feel something squish around. The info on myelopathy does sound somewhat similar to my experiences. About a week before my legs felt weak and odd, one hand was going partially numb at work and I kept dropping everything that day.
According to what the neck X-ray showed him (I just remembered he had done them), the neck is completely straight except for a small bend in the wrong direction. I forgot the technical term. A kyphosis, I believe? There is also a great deal of degeneration in the vertebrae. I know it can’t show discs, but boney structures. I will try to get someone to take my case again and do as you recommend. I wish you were in Florida!
I read somewhere that with spinal cord compression, it doesn’t show up on an EMG/ nerve conduction study. Is that correct, or did I misunderstand?
One last question: is cord flattening different than cord compression? I have that in the thoracic area and I haven’t found what exactly that means.
Again, thank you for your time! I really appreciate this resource and your amazing dedication to us here, and really taking it to heart to help as many as possible. It’s not easy to find doctors like that…
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