TLIF Leg pain/sciatica

Tagged: residual leg pain after a TLIF

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Renee123
Participant

March 30, 2016 at 10:36 pm

Post count: 130

#21802

Well said. Thank you. What about spondylolisthesis ? Facets are being removed, correct ? Is there any issue with BMP in a posterolateral fusion without facets for spondylolisthesis ?

“Bone can “clog up” the foramen in a TLIF (but not in a posterolateral fusion) if not used properly. The dose for a posterolateral fusion only I am still working on but 2-3mg per level seems to be effective.”

Are you saying bone can clog up foramen from intradisc BMP use growing into the foramin ?

Are you using 2-3 mgs on either side or combined ?

If I were concerned about BMP would it be best to just use for the posterolateral fusion and not in the disc space?

Sorry for all the questions. I may just perform the surgery on myself :) !

Donald Corenman, MD, DC
Moderator

March 31, 2016 at 2:02 am

Post count: 8660

#21803

I assume you are talking about an isthmic spondylolisthesis where the inferior facets are “disconnected” due to the pars fractures and are generally removed during surgery (the Gill procedure). If you are talking about a degenerative spondylolisthesis, the facets remain and the question would not apply.

I always perform a posterolateral fusion even with a Gill procedure. Even though the facets are generally gone (the superior facet on the non-TLIF side is still present), the transverse processes (or ala of the sacrum) is still present and I get great fusion masses in these areas. I have yet to see a problem with a posterolateral fusion using BMP and I have about 1000 cases under my belt.

Yes, bone can grow into the foramen after a TLIF if BMP is not used properly. There are patients I have seen as a second opinion who had bone grow into the foramen without the use of BMP.

I generally use about 2-3mg combined over both sides in a posterolateral fusion and only on the non-TLIF side in a TLIF fusion. If you were very concerned about the surgeon, you could use BMP only in the posterolateral non-TLIF side however BMP in the disc space is highly effective.

Dr. Corenman

PLEASE REMEMBER, THIS FORUM IS MEANT TO PROVIDE GENERAL INFORMATION ON SPINE ANATOMY, CONDITIONS AND TREATMENTS. TO GET AN ACCURATE DIAGNOSIS, YOU MUST VISIT A QUALIFIED PROFESSIONAL IN PERSON.

Donald Corenman, MD, DC is a highly-regarded spine surgeon, considered an expert in the area of neck and back pain. Trained as both a Medical Doctor and Doctor of Chiropractic, Dr. Corenman earned academic appointments as Clinical Assistant Professor and Assistant Professor of Orthopaedic Surgery at the University of Colorado Health Sciences Center, and his research on spine surgery and rehabilitation has resulted in the publication of multiple peer-reviewed articles and two books.

Renee123
Participant

March 31, 2016 at 9:23 pm

Post count: 130

#21811

yes, I have isthmic spondylolisthesis….so to be clear you only use BMP on the non TLIF side for posterolaterlal fusion of 2-3 mgs and just bone from the Gill on the TLIF side ?

What can be done if bone does grow in the formamen or anyhwere else for that matter where bone shouldn’t be ?

Thank you again

Donald Corenman, MD, DC
Moderator

April 1, 2016 at 6:23 am

Post count: 8660

#21822

In the posterolateral position, I use BMP with bone on the side of the preserved superior articular facet (the non-TLIF side) and bone graft without BMP on the posterolateral TLIF side. I do use BMP in the disc space in front of the cage as I noted earlier.

Bone that grows into the area of the nerve root can be removed in a second operation once the fusion is solid.

Dr. Corenman

PLEASE REMEMBER, THIS FORUM IS MEANT TO PROVIDE GENERAL INFORMATION ON SPINE ANATOMY, CONDITIONS AND TREATMENTS. TO GET AN ACCURATE DIAGNOSIS, YOU MUST VISIT A QUALIFIED PROFESSIONAL IN PERSON.

Donald Corenman, MD, DC is a highly-regarded spine surgeon, considered an expert in the area of neck and back pain. Trained as both a Medical Doctor and Doctor of Chiropractic, Dr. Corenman earned academic appointments as Clinical Assistant Professor and Assistant Professor of Orthopaedic Surgery at the University of Colorado Health Sciences Center, and his research on spine surgery and rehabilitation has resulted in the publication of multiple peer-reviewed articles and two books.

biofreeze
Participant

April 3, 2016 at 11:43 am

Post count: 99

#21860

I was reading through this and was just curious… Would this mean that the non-TLIF side with the BMP would fuse faster than the TLIF side without BMP for posterolateral fusion ? Can this lead to a problem ??

Sound like TLIF really isn’t something that should be done without BMP !

Donald Corenman, MD, DC
Moderator

April 3, 2016 at 6:16 pm

Post count: 8660

#21868

I think a TLIF can be performed well without BMP as any fusion can.in fact, I perform my cervical fusions with only autograft or allograft and these surgeries fuse at a high percentage and even quicker than lumbar fusions with BMP fuse. The difference is that there is only a small pressure load for cervical fusions and the graft almost fully fills the disc space. With a lumbar fusion, the bone has to grow across the disc space and that takes time.

In a TLIF, I typically do not place BMP in a posterolateral position on the TLIF side just to prevent any BMP from coming into contact with a nerve root. Yes-it takes longer to fuse and occasionally does not fuse on the TLIF side but that has no bearing on the success of the procedure.

Dr. Corenman

PLEASE REMEMBER, THIS FORUM IS MEANT TO PROVIDE GENERAL INFORMATION ON SPINE ANATOMY, CONDITIONS AND TREATMENTS. TO GET AN ACCURATE DIAGNOSIS, YOU MUST VISIT A QUALIFIED PROFESSIONAL IN PERSON.

Donald Corenman, MD, DC is a highly-regarded spine surgeon, considered an expert in the area of neck and back pain. Trained as both a Medical Doctor and Doctor of Chiropractic, Dr. Corenman earned academic appointments as Clinical Assistant Professor and Assistant Professor of Orthopaedic Surgery at the University of Colorado Health Sciences Center, and his research on spine surgery and rehabilitation has resulted in the publication of multiple peer-reviewed articles and two books.
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Donald Corenman, MD, DC

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Eric S

Sep 26, 2021

by Eric S on Donald Corenman, MD, DC

Successful pars repair at 46 years old

Back in November of 2018 (at 46 years old) I came from Vancouver BC to have a pars repair done with Dr. Donald Corenman at the Steadman Clinic in Vail Colorado. I'm finally posting this review nearly three years later in late 2021. The reason I waited so long was I wanted to know the final result before I posted my review. Unfortunately in that time Dr. Corenman has retired. Nevertheless, I want to post this review of Dr. Corenman and his staff at the Steadman Clinic in their excellent treatment of my L5 pars interarticularis.

I fractured my pars at age 42 back in 2014 when rolling on the gym floor, and was denied treatment by the Canadian healthcare system, probably due to my age. First my GP told me there was no surgical option for a pars defect, which was quite incorrect! I tried to live with it, but the symptoms worsened (periodic random spine slippage and weeks of resultant pain after just bending over to tie my shoe, so I eventually learned to mostly squat and hardly bend). When I finally consulted with Canadian spine surgeons, I was told they believed my pars defect had been congenital (since birth). This was absurd, considering I had done extreme martial arts (including jiu jitsu) for years prior, as well as 5 years of reinforcing steel full time in my 20s, probably the hardest job on the back you can find. No pars defect like mine would possibly have allowed this--ergo it was impossible that I had had the defect since birth. I did however have an asymptomatic congenital spina bifida occulta that made me more susceptible to a pars fracture. In 2014 in one instant, I went from having the strongest back people I knew said they'd ever seen, to being unable to safely bend over and tie my shoe without a non-negligible risk of my spine slipping randomly (which would lead to weeks of pain after each occurrence). This was due to the unilateral L5 pars defect, otherwise known as spondylolysis. It was when lying in pain on the floor 4 years later after maybe the 6th spine slippage event post injury, that I had had enough, and resolved to have surgery. If Canada's "universal health care" said no, I would make lemonade from lemons, and find the very best surgeon in the world at pars repairs. That was Dr. Donald Corenman. Dr. Corenman back in 2018 ran a website https://neckandback.com/ that dedicated many pages to the science of every aspect of pars repairs, from eligibility (good discs on MRI), to best surgical techniques (minimal open compared to minimally invasive), best imaging to use (i.e., O-Arm with Stealth imaging vs. older fluoroscopy), the ideal amount of BMP to use and why not use too much or too little, and much more, all to do with pars repairs, pages upon pages of his site just on the pars, with scientific references and his own extensive expert opinion. As a health research statistician, I was very impressed with this. It was in stark contrast to the websites of other spine surgeons which barely gave the pars a word or two, focusing almost exclusively on fusions. I had found the best surgeon in the world for pars repairs, and so after Dr. Corenman personally screened my MRI to ensure my discs were healthy, I booked the surgery.

Being 46 years old at the time of surgery in 2018, with a 4-year-old pars fracture from 2014 combined with a congenital SBO meant my pars fragment was somewhat atrophied, but it was "very solid", said Dr. Corenman in the operative report. Nevertheless, it was challenging with two things to fix, the pars and SBO, and OR time was around 4 hours. Recovery over the following months was guided by a very clear "Spine binder" from the Steadman Clinic with strict rules of "no BLT" (no bending, lifting or twisting), and illustrated physiotherapy guidelines. They even warned patients to avoid fish oil supplements, which could excessively dampen inflammation and hence slow bone healing. They answered many questions I had during months of recovery, with responses coming from the very supportive Lori Fugate (then director of Dr. Corenman's practice), and Ehrich Bean (then physician's assistant at the practice), as well as a couple calls with Dr. Corenman himself after two of the CT scans. Ehrich Bean offered great advice for taking the spine binder conservatively due to the nature of pars repairs vs. fusions. The final post-op CT scan I had was a couple weeks ago at 34 months post-op, and Dr. Corenman had retired, but I got a very positive and informative call from Eric Strauch (current PA at the Steadman Clinic under Dr. Corenman's replacement there, and who had also worked with Dr. Corenman previously). The staff at the Steadman Clinic were extremely supportive all the way through the process. I should mention, the local Canadian spine surgeon did offer me very good post-operative support including antibiotics as needed to deal with a mild surface incision-site infection early on, booking numerous x-rays when I felt something was amiss, as well as booking all four of my post-op CT scans. I am very grateful for that support also.

My final result shows plenty of solid bone across the pars and a healed SBO, with my vertebral body now a solid bone ring instead of being broken at two places as it was pre-op. Does my spine hold up in the real world? You bet! I have recently dug and moved several yards of dirt and sand and gravel by myself (shovel and wheelbarrow!) to fix our water main, pulled roots from the yard, moved several "portable" (these are HUGE) air conditioners up several flights of stairs my myself, and lifted weights. I now run 2 miles (3.2 KM) several times weekly with a hard 100 meter dash in the middle. I bend deeply before each run I go on, with no spine slippage. My spine feels amazing. I can bend over to do exercise, or real word tasks, with no risk of spine slippage.

My sincere thanks to God, Dr. Donald Corenman, Lori Fugate, Ehrich Bean, Eric Strauch, and the Steadman Clinic, as well as the Canadian spine surgeon who offered me excellent post-operative care back in Canada. You have all given me a new lease on life.

Sincerely,
Eric S

Robert S

May 11, 2021

by Robert S on Donald Corenman, MD, DC

Back Fusion Surgery

I had my entire lumbar spine fused in November of 2018. I had scoliosis , with pinched nerves that were so painful I could hardly walk - and standing for more than a few minutes was impossible. Even sitting was painful.
The fusion surgery produced immediate relief! And the recovery was much easier than I expected.
To this day I can do all the activities I love from hiking, to standing in a stream fly fishing to riding my bike long distances - or just walking down the street with my wife.
Kudos to Dr. Corenman and his staff, (including the two Erics) for taking such good care of me!

Leslie R

Jul 9, 2020

by Leslie R on Donald Corenman, MD, DC

TLIF

I had my TLIF surgery on 6/24/2020 by Dr. Corenman, I can not say enough good things about the Dr or his staff. I was always treated with respect and explained everything throughly, that made it easy for everyone to understand. I highly recommend Dr. Corenman and the Steadman Clinic.

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