Disc Bulge after Thoracic Microdiscectomy

Tagged: Thoracic decompression

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Donald Corenman, MD, DC
Moderator

April 17, 2021 at 5:10 pm

Post count: 8660

#33953

“L5-S1:…moderate-sized right paracentral and subarticular disc protrusion, and facet hypertrophy result in moderate overall narrowing of the right lateral recess with abutment of the descending right S1 nerve root”. I assume this was the MRI prior to your surgery.

This would fit with inability to walk on your toes (heel raise loss) and pain radiating to your right buttocks and down the leg. Bilateral symmetrical foot burning fits better with peripheral neuropathy (discussed previously) and sacral pain is consistent with pudendal neuropathy-not the S1 root compression.

Dr. Corenman

PLEASE REMEMBER, THIS FORUM IS MEANT TO PROVIDE GENERAL INFORMATION ON SPINE ANATOMY, CONDITIONS AND TREATMENTS. TO GET AN ACCURATE DIAGNOSIS, YOU MUST VISIT A QUALIFIED PROFESSIONAL IN PERSON.

Donald Corenman, MD, DC is a highly-regarded spine surgeon, considered an expert in the area of neck and back pain. Trained as both a Medical Doctor and Doctor of Chiropractic, Dr. Corenman earned academic appointments as Clinical Assistant Professor and Assistant Professor of Orthopaedic Surgery at the University of Colorado Health Sciences Center, and his research on spine surgery and rehabilitation has resulted in the publication of multiple peer-reviewed articles and two books.

zlwalker
Participant

April 18, 2021 at 4:04 pm

Post count: 31

#33971

Dr. Corenman,

Thanks for your response! In terms of pudendal neuropathy, what could be causing that issue and what would be a possible solution?

Donald Corenman, MD, DC
Moderator

April 18, 2021 at 6:55 pm

Post count: 8660

#33972

Neuropathy can be mechanically based like carpel tunnel syndrome or inflammatory/degenerative like peripheral neuropathy. I think pudendal neuropathy is of the latter origin but no one knows exactly how this disorder develops. Epidural steroid injections can help in some cases.

Dr. Corenman

PLEASE REMEMBER, THIS FORUM IS MEANT TO PROVIDE GENERAL INFORMATION ON SPINE ANATOMY, CONDITIONS AND TREATMENTS. TO GET AN ACCURATE DIAGNOSIS, YOU MUST VISIT A QUALIFIED PROFESSIONAL IN PERSON.

Donald Corenman, MD, DC is a highly-regarded spine surgeon, considered an expert in the area of neck and back pain. Trained as both a Medical Doctor and Doctor of Chiropractic, Dr. Corenman earned academic appointments as Clinical Assistant Professor and Assistant Professor of Orthopaedic Surgery at the University of Colorado Health Sciences Center, and his research on spine surgery and rehabilitation has resulted in the publication of multiple peer-reviewed articles and two books.

zlwalker
Participant

May 14, 2021 at 11:51 am

Post count: 31

#34064

Dr. Corenman,

I did get referred to a second neurosurgeon. My foot tingling has increased significantly, and I am starting to have the shooting pains down my leg, which I know is coming from either my L4 or L5 herniation. I am guessing that one of those two discs is impinging on a nerve, thus causing the neuropathy we have discussed (I am obviously just guessing).

My pain management doctor told me that I will need an EMG, but there’s most likely a pinched nerve. He does believe that an epidural could fix the issue, but he also noted that another microdiscectomy might be needed at a lower level. I am kind of at a loss with all of the information presented.

Is it possible for an epidural to relieve a pinched nerve permanently? Also, have you ever seen this type of scenario where a successful surgery occurs at one level (thoracic), but then a second one is needed in the same year for a different area? It just feels so overwhelming!

Thanks for all you do.

Donald Corenman, MD, DC
Moderator

May 14, 2021 at 1:24 pm

Post count: 8660

#34065

All of your nerve compression at L4-5 was mild while the L5-S1 level was “moderate” so my money would be on the L5-S1 level. If you have no significant motor weakness, then an EMG will be helpful. Using discriminatory diagnostic nerve blocks would be a useful tool to diagnose the origin of pain.

An epidural will not help nerve compression motor weakness but can help pain. It won’t “decompress the nerve root” Unfortunately, disc herniations can occur multiple times in different locations in one year with each needing to be addressed surgically.

Dr. Corenman

PLEASE REMEMBER, THIS FORUM IS MEANT TO PROVIDE GENERAL INFORMATION ON SPINE ANATOMY, CONDITIONS AND TREATMENTS. TO GET AN ACCURATE DIAGNOSIS, YOU MUST VISIT A QUALIFIED PROFESSIONAL IN PERSON.

Donald Corenman, MD, DC is a highly-regarded spine surgeon, considered an expert in the area of neck and back pain. Trained as both a Medical Doctor and Doctor of Chiropractic, Dr. Corenman earned academic appointments as Clinical Assistant Professor and Assistant Professor of Orthopaedic Surgery at the University of Colorado Health Sciences Center, and his research on spine surgery and rehabilitation has resulted in the publication of multiple peer-reviewed articles and two books.

zlwalker
Participant

September 22, 2021 at 8:13 am

Post count: 31

#34401

Dr. Corenman,

I am back after a long hiatus! I have recently started having pain again with my surgery sites from my thoracic discectomy. I had rib pain and stomach pain from my previous surgery, and those have started again. However, the twist is that I am a cross country coach, and I have had a ton of meets in a short amount of time. I have had about eight meets in three weeks with minimal rest in-between. I have these pains, and they are getting worse, but I also know I have done a lot of work recently that my body is not used to. I had an epidural done in February at this site, and it seemed to work well, so it could also be wearing off.

I guess my question is the following: Should I be concerned about a reherniation? I am worried because I have the same pains as before, but I know that I have pushed myself too much recently as well. I am trying to discern the difference between a reherniation and just a flare-up. Do you have any advice on what my next steps should be or general reherniation symptoms? I know that reherniation symptoms are close to the original symptoms, but I am just lost because I have low level pain instead of aggressive levels of pain. I also have more burning and tingling in my feet than before with this pain as well. Any thoughts or helpful advice?

Thanks!
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Donald Corenman, MD, DC

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81 reviews

Eric S

Sep 26, 2021

by Eric S on Donald Corenman, MD, DC

Successful pars repair at 46 years old

Back in November of 2018 (at 46 years old) I came from Vancouver BC to have a pars repair done with Dr. Donald Corenman at the Steadman Clinic in Vail Colorado. I'm finally posting this review nearly three years later in late 2021. The reason I waited so long was I wanted to know the final result before I posted my review. Unfortunately in that time Dr. Corenman has retired. Nevertheless, I want to post this review of Dr. Corenman and his staff at the Steadman Clinic in their excellent treatment of my L5 pars interarticularis.

I fractured my pars at age 42 back in 2014 when rolling on the gym floor, and was denied treatment by the Canadian healthcare system, probably due to my age. First my GP told me there was no surgical option for a pars defect, which was quite incorrect! I tried to live with it, but the symptoms worsened (periodic random spine slippage and weeks of resultant pain after just bending over to tie my shoe, so I eventually learned to mostly squat and hardly bend). When I finally consulted with Canadian spine surgeons, I was told they believed my pars defect had been congenital (since birth). This was absurd, considering I had done extreme martial arts (including jiu jitsu) for years prior, as well as 5 years of reinforcing steel full time in my 20s, probably the hardest job on the back you can find. No pars defect like mine would possibly have allowed this--ergo it was impossible that I had had the defect since birth. I did however have an asymptomatic congenital spina bifida occulta that made me more susceptible to a pars fracture. In 2014 in one instant, I went from having the strongest back people I knew said they'd ever seen, to being unable to safely bend over and tie my shoe without a non-negligible risk of my spine slipping randomly (which would lead to weeks of pain after each occurrence). This was due to the unilateral L5 pars defect, otherwise known as spondylolysis. It was when lying in pain on the floor 4 years later after maybe the 6th spine slippage event post injury, that I had had enough, and resolved to have surgery. If Canada's "universal health care" said no, I would make lemonade from lemons, and find the very best surgeon in the world at pars repairs. That was Dr. Donald Corenman. Dr. Corenman back in 2018 ran a website https://neckandback.com/ that dedicated many pages to the science of every aspect of pars repairs, from eligibility (good discs on MRI), to best surgical techniques (minimal open compared to minimally invasive), best imaging to use (i.e., O-Arm with Stealth imaging vs. older fluoroscopy), the ideal amount of BMP to use and why not use too much or too little, and much more, all to do with pars repairs, pages upon pages of his site just on the pars, with scientific references and his own extensive expert opinion. As a health research statistician, I was very impressed with this. It was in stark contrast to the websites of other spine surgeons which barely gave the pars a word or two, focusing almost exclusively on fusions. I had found the best surgeon in the world for pars repairs, and so after Dr. Corenman personally screened my MRI to ensure my discs were healthy, I booked the surgery.

Being 46 years old at the time of surgery in 2018, with a 4-year-old pars fracture from 2014 combined with a congenital SBO meant my pars fragment was somewhat atrophied, but it was "very solid", said Dr. Corenman in the operative report. Nevertheless, it was challenging with two things to fix, the pars and SBO, and OR time was around 4 hours. Recovery over the following months was guided by a very clear "Spine binder" from the Steadman Clinic with strict rules of "no BLT" (no bending, lifting or twisting), and illustrated physiotherapy guidelines. They even warned patients to avoid fish oil supplements, which could excessively dampen inflammation and hence slow bone healing. They answered many questions I had during months of recovery, with responses coming from the very supportive Lori Fugate (then director of Dr. Corenman's practice), and Ehrich Bean (then physician's assistant at the practice), as well as a couple calls with Dr. Corenman himself after two of the CT scans. Ehrich Bean offered great advice for taking the spine binder conservatively due to the nature of pars repairs vs. fusions. The final post-op CT scan I had was a couple weeks ago at 34 months post-op, and Dr. Corenman had retired, but I got a very positive and informative call from Eric Strauch (current PA at the Steadman Clinic under Dr. Corenman's replacement there, and who had also worked with Dr. Corenman previously). The staff at the Steadman Clinic were extremely supportive all the way through the process. I should mention, the local Canadian spine surgeon did offer me very good post-operative support including antibiotics as needed to deal with a mild surface incision-site infection early on, booking numerous x-rays when I felt something was amiss, as well as booking all four of my post-op CT scans. I am very grateful for that support also.

My final result shows plenty of solid bone across the pars and a healed SBO, with my vertebral body now a solid bone ring instead of being broken at two places as it was pre-op. Does my spine hold up in the real world? You bet! I have recently dug and moved several yards of dirt and sand and gravel by myself (shovel and wheelbarrow!) to fix our water main, pulled roots from the yard, moved several "portable" (these are HUGE) air conditioners up several flights of stairs my myself, and lifted weights. I now run 2 miles (3.2 KM) several times weekly with a hard 100 meter dash in the middle. I bend deeply before each run I go on, with no spine slippage. My spine feels amazing. I can bend over to do exercise, or real word tasks, with no risk of spine slippage.

My sincere thanks to God, Dr. Donald Corenman, Lori Fugate, Ehrich Bean, Eric Strauch, and the Steadman Clinic, as well as the Canadian spine surgeon who offered me excellent post-operative care back in Canada. You have all given me a new lease on life.

Sincerely,
Eric S

Robert S

May 11, 2021

by Robert S on Donald Corenman, MD, DC

Back Fusion Surgery

I had my entire lumbar spine fused in November of 2018. I had scoliosis , with pinched nerves that were so painful I could hardly walk - and standing for more than a few minutes was impossible. Even sitting was painful.
The fusion surgery produced immediate relief! And the recovery was much easier than I expected.
To this day I can do all the activities I love from hiking, to standing in a stream fly fishing to riding my bike long distances - or just walking down the street with my wife.
Kudos to Dr. Corenman and his staff, (including the two Erics) for taking such good care of me!

Leslie R

Jul 9, 2020

by Leslie R on Donald Corenman, MD, DC

TLIF

I had my TLIF surgery on 6/24/2020 by Dr. Corenman, I can not say enough good things about the Dr or his staff. I was always treated with respect and explained everything throughly, that made it easy for everyone to understand. I highly recommend Dr. Corenman and the Steadman Clinic.

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