Biologics / Fibrin treatment / Intradiscal biacuplasty/ stem cells

Tagged: IDETT, intradiscal biacuplasty, nucleoplasty.

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Renee123
Participant

April 2, 2016 at 11:18 am

Post count: 130

#21842

For L5,S1 spondylolisthesis with a degenerative disc with bulge I really want to try everything I can before surgery. I have no leg pain or other symptoms just straight back pain and instability. I know the segment needs to be stabilized, however do you think that any of the procedures above work. I feel if I can restore disc height and decompress nerves that I may be able to build up paraspinal muscles to do the rest !

What are you thoughts on Fibrin treatment or intradiscal biacuplasty or nucleoplasty.

Renee123
Participant

April 2, 2016 at 11:34 am

Post count: 130

#21843

This is for isthmic spondy

jericho163
Participant

April 3, 2016 at 3:34 am

Post count: 19

#21847

I had intradiscal biacuplasty for DD L5s1. It will eliminate the disc pain partially but it doesnt seal the tear for me. There was still instanility. is So i had tlif in the end. Still having some issues though. There is also disc-fx, which claims to seal the annular tear. Dr Corenman will have a better idea on the efficacy.

Donald Corenman, MD, DC
Moderator

April 3, 2016 at 7:14 am

Post count: 8660

#21848

Intradiscal biacuplasty or nucleoplasty has been around since the early 90s as developed by the Saal brothers and used to be called IDETT (intradiscal electrothermal therapy). The theory is that the injectionist places a thermal catheter inside the disc space, heats the wire and cauterizes the inside of the disc. This therapy was discredited about 3-4 years later and I am surprised it is making a comeback.

Typical nucleoplasty is the mechanical removal of some nucleus by a type of catheter. I never understood why this therapy was invented as removal of nucleus reduces the shock absorption of the disc and creates greater pressure on the annulus (the outside wall with all the pain nerves attached).

If there is an isthmic spondylolisthesis present, the problem is the pars fractures and instability. None of the treatments noted above will stabilize the vertebra.

Dr. Corenman

PLEASE REMEMBER, THIS FORUM IS MEANT TO PROVIDE GENERAL INFORMATION ON SPINE ANATOMY, CONDITIONS AND TREATMENTS. TO GET AN ACCURATE DIAGNOSIS, YOU MUST VISIT A QUALIFIED PROFESSIONAL IN PERSON.

Donald Corenman, MD, DC is a highly-regarded spine surgeon, considered an expert in the area of neck and back pain. Trained as both a Medical Doctor and Doctor of Chiropractic, Dr. Corenman earned academic appointments as Clinical Assistant Professor and Assistant Professor of Orthopaedic Surgery at the University of Colorado Health Sciences Center, and his research on spine surgery and rehabilitation has resulted in the publication of multiple peer-reviewed articles and two books.

Renee123
Participant

April 3, 2016 at 11:34 am

Post count: 130

#21859

Thank you ! Are you familiar with Fibrin treatment ? I believe it adds some kind of jelly like substance or collagen to the disc space in order to raise the disc space thereby doing an indirect decompression.

I know its a long shot, but if I have no leg pain with a grad one spondy, do you think this is a possibility to relive back pain ?

jericho163
Participant

April 3, 2016 at 6:02 pm

Post count: 19

#21867

I am not a doctor but before my tlif i read online on some of the techniques to avoid disc fusion. Fibrin is one of them. I think it is not commonly offered in many places. It claims to seal up the tear and increase disc volume. My personal opinion is the disc is not so easily repaired via any mechanism, but I do know some people get some or immemse benefits from such treatment, mostly discogenic kind, spondy i dont think so…some claimed their tears are sealed by idet-like treatment if it was just a small tear to begin with.

I might be talking nonsense here since I am no doctor. I can only say if your disc is the pain generator and is still turgid and strong enough,biacuplasty might work..if you have spondy, this means the disc is abit deranged already. I had biacuplasty and i can say it eliminated the local disc pain. Back pain as a whole? Depends on individual? All this techniques involves poking the disc and heating it, so I dont know longterm wise.

Let Dr Corenman advise you.
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Donald Corenman, MD, DC

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81 reviews

Eric S

Sep 26, 2021

by Eric S on Donald Corenman, MD, DC

Successful pars repair at 46 years old

Back in November of 2018 (at 46 years old) I came from Vancouver BC to have a pars repair done with Dr. Donald Corenman at the Steadman Clinic in Vail Colorado. I'm finally posting this review nearly three years later in late 2021. The reason I waited so long was I wanted to know the final result before I posted my review. Unfortunately in that time Dr. Corenman has retired. Nevertheless, I want to post this review of Dr. Corenman and his staff at the Steadman Clinic in their excellent treatment of my L5 pars interarticularis.

I fractured my pars at age 42 back in 2014 when rolling on the gym floor, and was denied treatment by the Canadian healthcare system, probably due to my age. First my GP told me there was no surgical option for a pars defect, which was quite incorrect! I tried to live with it, but the symptoms worsened (periodic random spine slippage and weeks of resultant pain after just bending over to tie my shoe, so I eventually learned to mostly squat and hardly bend). When I finally consulted with Canadian spine surgeons, I was told they believed my pars defect had been congenital (since birth). This was absurd, considering I had done extreme martial arts (including jiu jitsu) for years prior, as well as 5 years of reinforcing steel full time in my 20s, probably the hardest job on the back you can find. No pars defect like mine would possibly have allowed this--ergo it was impossible that I had had the defect since birth. I did however have an asymptomatic congenital spina bifida occulta that made me more susceptible to a pars fracture. In 2014 in one instant, I went from having the strongest back people I knew said they'd ever seen, to being unable to safely bend over and tie my shoe without a non-negligible risk of my spine slipping randomly (which would lead to weeks of pain after each occurrence). This was due to the unilateral L5 pars defect, otherwise known as spondylolysis. It was when lying in pain on the floor 4 years later after maybe the 6th spine slippage event post injury, that I had had enough, and resolved to have surgery. If Canada's "universal health care" said no, I would make lemonade from lemons, and find the very best surgeon in the world at pars repairs. That was Dr. Donald Corenman. Dr. Corenman back in 2018 ran a website https://neckandback.com/ that dedicated many pages to the science of every aspect of pars repairs, from eligibility (good discs on MRI), to best surgical techniques (minimal open compared to minimally invasive), best imaging to use (i.e., O-Arm with Stealth imaging vs. older fluoroscopy), the ideal amount of BMP to use and why not use too much or too little, and much more, all to do with pars repairs, pages upon pages of his site just on the pars, with scientific references and his own extensive expert opinion. As a health research statistician, I was very impressed with this. It was in stark contrast to the websites of other spine surgeons which barely gave the pars a word or two, focusing almost exclusively on fusions. I had found the best surgeon in the world for pars repairs, and so after Dr. Corenman personally screened my MRI to ensure my discs were healthy, I booked the surgery.

Being 46 years old at the time of surgery in 2018, with a 4-year-old pars fracture from 2014 combined with a congenital SBO meant my pars fragment was somewhat atrophied, but it was "very solid", said Dr. Corenman in the operative report. Nevertheless, it was challenging with two things to fix, the pars and SBO, and OR time was around 4 hours. Recovery over the following months was guided by a very clear "Spine binder" from the Steadman Clinic with strict rules of "no BLT" (no bending, lifting or twisting), and illustrated physiotherapy guidelines. They even warned patients to avoid fish oil supplements, which could excessively dampen inflammation and hence slow bone healing. They answered many questions I had during months of recovery, with responses coming from the very supportive Lori Fugate (then director of Dr. Corenman's practice), and Ehrich Bean (then physician's assistant at the practice), as well as a couple calls with Dr. Corenman himself after two of the CT scans. Ehrich Bean offered great advice for taking the spine binder conservatively due to the nature of pars repairs vs. fusions. The final post-op CT scan I had was a couple weeks ago at 34 months post-op, and Dr. Corenman had retired, but I got a very positive and informative call from Eric Strauch (current PA at the Steadman Clinic under Dr. Corenman's replacement there, and who had also worked with Dr. Corenman previously). The staff at the Steadman Clinic were extremely supportive all the way through the process. I should mention, the local Canadian spine surgeon did offer me very good post-operative support including antibiotics as needed to deal with a mild surface incision-site infection early on, booking numerous x-rays when I felt something was amiss, as well as booking all four of my post-op CT scans. I am very grateful for that support also.

My final result shows plenty of solid bone across the pars and a healed SBO, with my vertebral body now a solid bone ring instead of being broken at two places as it was pre-op. Does my spine hold up in the real world? You bet! I have recently dug and moved several yards of dirt and sand and gravel by myself (shovel and wheelbarrow!) to fix our water main, pulled roots from the yard, moved several "portable" (these are HUGE) air conditioners up several flights of stairs my myself, and lifted weights. I now run 2 miles (3.2 KM) several times weekly with a hard 100 meter dash in the middle. I bend deeply before each run I go on, with no spine slippage. My spine feels amazing. I can bend over to do exercise, or real word tasks, with no risk of spine slippage.

My sincere thanks to God, Dr. Donald Corenman, Lori Fugate, Ehrich Bean, Eric Strauch, and the Steadman Clinic, as well as the Canadian spine surgeon who offered me excellent post-operative care back in Canada. You have all given me a new lease on life.

Sincerely,
Eric S

Robert S

May 11, 2021

by Robert S on Donald Corenman, MD, DC

Back Fusion Surgery

I had my entire lumbar spine fused in November of 2018. I had scoliosis , with pinched nerves that were so painful I could hardly walk - and standing for more than a few minutes was impossible. Even sitting was painful.
The fusion surgery produced immediate relief! And the recovery was much easier than I expected.
To this day I can do all the activities I love from hiking, to standing in a stream fly fishing to riding my bike long distances - or just walking down the street with my wife.
Kudos to Dr. Corenman and his staff, (including the two Erics) for taking such good care of me!

Leslie R

Jul 9, 2020

by Leslie R on Donald Corenman, MD, DC

TLIF

I had my TLIF surgery on 6/24/2020 by Dr. Corenman, I can not say enough good things about the Dr or his staff. I was always treated with respect and explained everything throughly, that made it easy for everyone to understand. I highly recommend Dr. Corenman and the Steadman Clinic.

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